Ep. 36 - Least Mode vs Beast Mode w/ Luke Leaman

# Ep. 36 - Least Mode vs Beast Mode w/ Luke Leaman

**Channel:** RNT Fitness Radio
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Thanks for tuning in to another episode of R&T Fitness Radio. This week, Akash and I have Luke Lehman on the line. Now, we've been following Luke for a long time. We've attended courses of his back when he was lecturing as part of the Poliquin group. Since then, he set up his own business, the Muscle Nerds, who teach some amazing seminars that are full of education, humor, expletives, you name it, he covers it. He also runs a successful online coaching business. And this episode is we kind of talk through sort of the health points of body composition training. We talk about Luke's sort of terminology of going from least mode to beast mode and the benefits of that and how he does it. We talk about stress reduction and how myself included, you know, it's worrying that nowadays it's almost impossible to put our phones down and that we're constantly glued to them. And Luke says that in his opinion, that is probably one of the biggest stresses sort of that most of us go through in 2018. We talk about HRV and just basically stuff that if you are a typical meathead and you focus on just purely training, just heavy, heavy, heavy all the time, loading on food, very inflamed, your digestive system sucks, you walk up the stairs and you're sweating, then this episode is going to be perfect for you as we go through Luke's journey as to what he did to turn things back around. So I hope you guys really enjoy this one as much as I did. As always, please feel free to leave us some feedback, subscribe, share the podcast with your friends if you think that they would benefit from it. And as always, thanks for the support and thanks for listening. Perfect. So where are you at the moment? I'm in Thailand. Oh, nice. Yeah, it's nice. It's a good time to come. You know, it's overcast and fucking raining the whole time, but, you know, what are you going to do? Whereabouts in Thailand are you? We are in Bangkok for a few days, and then we're headed down to Phuket for like seven days. Cool. Just been to the cities? I don't know things at all. I think we're just doing one island. It's kind of staying chill the whole time, trying to relax for once. And then Zoe heads home, and I head to Ireland and London and Chicago. Oh, nice. Cool. So this is just purely holiday? It's holiday? Well, kind of. Kind of. But we've never actually had just a holiday. It's always been working. So we've never actually had a holiday where we didn't do any work whatsoever. And you still haven't because you're doing work now. That's it. And we've been doing work since we got here. At least I've done a little bit, emails and shit, but nothing crazy. Perfect. Awesome. So Luke, for the people that aren't too familiar with you that are listening to our podcast, talk us through the evolution of Luke Lehman. So how did you get into training? What side of it? Talk about your polyquin days, where you're at now with Muscle Nerds. Just give us a lowdown on that. All right. You know what? If you want to go all the way back, it started when I was a little kid, man. I think I was about six years old. It would have been 1984 when Arnold Schwarzenegger came out and Conan the Barbarian. And so I saw Arnold, and I'd never seen a guy at six years old. He was really impressionable. And you see that, and you're like, holy shit. Like that's the way a man should look. And so I said, that's how I want to look. So my parents thought it would be funny, and they bought me a weight set when I was a little kid, and I just never stopped lifting. So fast forward to like junior high, you know, you're lifting for Texas football. Get into high school, I started the powerlifting team in my hometown. Then when I went to college, I kind of got a little bit into bodybuilding, but I still love powerlifting. So I did that until my late 20s and then really kind of went hard out in physique and powerlifting. bodybuilding for a while. And I never got on stage as a bodybuilder, just because I didn't want to wear a banana hammock. So I always did the physique stuff and the stuff like the small speedos, not the not the really small speedos. And yeah, and then you know, I started I started studying Charles's stuff back when like 1992 93 when he was in muscle media and when testosterone when the Central Magazine first came out and I was looking at Charles Poliquin, Charles Staley, Paul Chek, like all these guys back then. And then I just basically just started researching everything I could and studying as much as I could And in 2007 started doing courses at Poliquin Group Within a a couple of years I was working for them as an assistant And then in 2013 I went on full time stayed there for about two years and then decided to leave and started Muscle Nerds And so that's where I've been now for the past three years. Awesome. Out of interest, how did you come up with the name Muscle Nerds? Because it's perfect. It is. I'm like, it's great. I couldn't believe that no one had ever actually started something like that. So I went, okay, so I'm a big believer in you should be given titles, like you shouldn't call yourself like an expert or this, that you should, you should wait for other people to tell you that right and kind of earn it. And so I remember in 2013, I was lecturing in Manchester. And I had my glasses before I had Lasix on these big thick Coke bottle glasses on and I had a really tight shirt and I was pretty jacked at the time. and one of the guys took a picture of me and started a Facebook page called Muscle Nerd Lehman and then put my picture on it and gave me the information and I thought it was hysterical and I went that's pretty cool so I'm going to take that idea and kind of put it on the back burner for a while and then in 2015 Zoe and I made it a reality. Is that where the logo came from then? The logo it's a funny thing about the logo we we went we're going through a couple of artists to get the logo. And, um, you know, you go through fiber and they're all crap. So then we hired a professional and then she sent some things that were, I mean, it was crap. It looked like we could have asked a five-year-old, put a five-year-old on weed and get them drunk and then have them drunk with his bad hand. And that's what it looked like. And it was terrible. So a friend of ours said, Hey, I'll hook you up with my guy. And the guy said, you know what? I'm not, I'm not doing logos anymore. So I don't really have any, I'm not going to do this. And then he heard what we wanted him to do and he says okay give me a second and like a few hours later we had our logo and he said yeah here you go and we went oh shit this is like way better than what we were thinking of perfect and how much do you want he was like 300 bucks i'm like holy shit man we would have paid a hell of a lot more for that great nice yeah it's just you know things finding is perfect yeah you know things fall into place you know they fall into place when the timing's right so So as long as you're patient and you just keep your ear to the ground, things will fall in your lap. And correct me if I'm wrong, but is the company set up between you and Zoe? It is. It is. So we're the two directors. She's the one that basically runs everything realistically because if it was left to me, it wouldn't exist at all. So she allows me to do what I do best, which is research and creating new things and networking and stuff like that. And then she runs everything else from all the admin to the books to talking to the lawyers and the accountants and all that type of stuff. Awesome. Yeah. So we were fortunate that we are completely different people. So the way I work is, and I'm a big picture person and I'm a planner, like long distance dreamer. And she's the one that actually can get the shit done, which I'm not. So it worked really, it worked out really well. What's Zoe's background? Zoe's background. So when I met her, she had just kind of gotten into training, but she wasn't really, she's not a personal trainer. She's not a big weightlifter, that type of thing. She was teaching like certified and like box fit and boot camp stuff. So she was doing that for a while before we met. So yeah, she was pretty new to the industry, really. I mean, not really like in it. She had a full-time job that was outside of the fitness industry. She kind of did the fitness thing before and after work. So she pretty much got thrown in headfirst when we started this. One of the terms that has sort of come out of muscle nerds is a least mode. Talk us through that. The comparison between least mode and beast mode. Well, you know, years ago I was talking to my friend, Zach Trowbridge. He's a coach in Chicago. And we were laughing at these, all these Instagram guys that were talking about how they're beast moding the workout, they're going to war. And they were saying all the typical hashtag bullshit people say. And we were laughing at him going, man, that guy or that girl doesn't know what beast mode is. They train like a pussy. They don't really understand what that is. And so Zach said something. He goes, it looks more like they're doing some least mode, not beast mode. And I went, oh, my God. So I banked that word in the back of my mind. And when I got out of the Republican group, I was thinking, what is not working for people? And what wasn't working was we were teaching people how to train Olympic athletes and pro athletes. And then you're going to your gym and you're trying to train a 45-year-old soccer mom of three that has better shit to do than train seven days a week with German volume training. Those people, they're already beasting out their life. And I thought, well, if they're already beasting out their life and they've got all that stress, why would we then destroy them in the gym? You know, it just seemed to me to be so unnecessary. And I figured, you know, dealing with all the physique girls that I deal with where you guys know how it is. Girls come to the industry they come to comp prep all the time and they say I want to do this competition just because it you know in their town And they not even close to being mentally or physically ready to do a contest prep but they do it anyways And then they blow up after their show and now they can't get the weight off no matter what they do, you know. So we started thinking about, you know, there's not that much difference between the competitors and general population. Stress is stress. So the problem was all of them had unmitigated chronic stress. They weren't doing anything to combat that. And I said, okay, if we look at like sprinting and lots of volume and lots of intensity and dieting being on one side, being the beast mode concept, well, everything in the body works on a continuum. So if we look at what's the natural opposite of that is, you know, cutting volume down, cutting intensity down, more aerobic work instead of anaerobic work, more food instead of less food, more massage and yoga and, you know, all that kumbaya, yin bullshit that people love to do and chanting and shit like that. smoking weed or whatever the people do to calm themselves down. You know, you have to have everything in life has an equal and opposite balance, right? So yin versus yang, day, man versus female. You can't really say that anymore in America because there's like 69 different genders. But in the natural order of things, there's a plus and a negative. And that's the way that our universe, we know it works. So it just makes sense that if we think about how people are beasting out their lives, you'd want to have something that could counteract that. So your training should be something that increases stress resilience, not pushes you further into that stress response. So why not pull people out and give them less volume and intensity, give them more stretching and yoga, more aerobic type work, more food and do the exact opposite, balance them out for a few months, which is what we call prepping to prep, then beast them when you have them in a good physiological condition and a good mental state to actually do a photo shoot or transformation or um or like a contest you know how do you find um their like mental buy-in to that initially it's tough yeah you'd really have to educate them wouldn't you into the to the what you're doing well the thing is because there's two sides of muscle nerds one side where we specialize in general population training and on the other side we specialize in training trainers right so the The majority of the people we train are other coaches that want to use it as an education on how to alter what they're doing and see this stuff kind of put into practice. And then we train a lot of people who are sick and tired of being sick and tired. They've seen seven doctors, four personal trainers. Nobody can fix them. and we're the first people to go why don't you chill the fuck out get more sleep eat more food go out on a lot of walks play with your kids and we'll train like two times a week instead of seven times a week and then they try it and all of a sudden like wow holy shit i'm sleeping again i'm pooping normally again my stomach's on my stomach's not busted up i've lost all my food intolerances and i'm growing and shredding out doing less eating more you know it's just allowing the body to do what it needs to do, which is recover. Yeah. You're using it almost like a priming phase. A priming phase, right. Exactly. Like, let's reboot your computer, right? Let's reboot everything and then boot it in the safe mode for like two months. And now we'll overclock the engine or overclock the CPU. I'm a computer programmer, so that's what I can think of. Almost like doing a diet break when you are dieting hard and then taking a step off the gas and then pushing hard again right it's a lot of the same stuff you guys talk about in your blog you know diet breaks and kind of backing off and deload things like that increasing your food points and then going back on the back on the diet because what people typically do they'll just diet non-stop for six months and they get to a point where they pulled so much food out they have nowhere else to go right then they hire a coach yeah they want to be and it's like you've you've just taken out all the variables i could have possibly used 100 you're like wow the only variable left is fucking drugs so you're willing to get on drugs no okay now you're gonna have to get fat again or like plump up a little bit but create some type of homeostasis and then we can start manipulating the variables at that point so because you guys know that the trend of the industry is keep adding more exercise and pulling more food but people don't they don't look at like the total energy they don't look at the gap of energy deficits so people tend to not eat enough for their activity anyways, right? So they'll do something like a Harris-Benedict equation and they'll undervalue their kind of work factor, right? So they'll say, oh, I'm at like a 1.2 when they might be training, like some of these girls I've seen training 21 hours a week and they need to eat. And what they're doing is they're eating like 1200 calories training 21 hours a week. Then when I'm like, well, I'm not losing anymore. Well, no shit. You know, you have to match the calories to the activity and then create your deficit from there But that not what they doing They matching the calories their body weight and they just keep adding more exercise but they not adding anything to feel that performance And that where a lot of the gap is. So when you think about somebody being on, say, a 15% calorie deficit, that might look that way by the math, just using their body weight. But when you add in 15 to 20 hours of training, now you understand that they're in a much higher deficit than they thought. and the only thing to do is to keep pulling more food and you can only pull food so much and then at least the binging and the guilt and the stress anxiety and that type of thing i'm on board with that 100 percent luke when you prescribe uh these two sessions a week what do they look like oh they're fucking brutal and that's that's what's funny is when people think least mode they think oh so the muscle nerds are telling you to go in and just hit a couple of sets no i'm telling you take a 60-minute workout and do it in 25 minutes. Like, make it so ridiculously hard that they don't want more than that, you know? Now, some people will pull that down even more. We have guys that, if I see someone's labs and they're in some real big trouble, we might pull them down to 12 sets a workout. If they're not that bad, they may do 24 sets, but they're going to do it in like 20 to 25 minutes, right? I want them to get in and get out. And that's what, like, some of the stuff I got that information from is CrossFit. What do they do really well? They have really fast, very dense, very intense workouts, and then they stop and they go home, right? So like, you look at different, the way different programs work and the way different training styles work, you say, okay, what can I choose from this program that works in this situation? And well, this other program has this, right? So when you look at CrossFit, the average workout, you're looking at like eight to 15 minutes tops, but they're incredibly energetic dependent. So you're busting up a lot of calories really fast, but you're not pushing yourself into a long-term state of fatigue by giving them way too much time domain for it, right? Interesting, yeah. And those workouts obviously have a really high cardiovascular demand, right? They do, but then cardiovascular demands, this is kind of part of that least mode to beast mode concept as well. You look at cardiovascular demands and cardiovascular adaptations. What we find is the majority of people that come to us, they're going to fit in one or two categories. They're either way too aerobically dominant, that these are the girls that are doing, you know, two hours of cardio a day. Their weightlifting looks like cardio, and they've been doing this for a long time. And the last thing they did is more aerobic development. Then you have it on the other side where the guys, this is what I get with every single fucking polyquin trainer I've ever dealt with. They wake up in the morning and they've got 90 to 95 waking heart rate. Their HRV is like 45 to 48. Their blood pressure is like the 140s or the 150s. They look fantastic, but their hair is falling out. They've got low testosterone, low thyroid. They can't eat anything without it busting their guts up and giving them diarrhea. And they just generally feel like shit. Look amazing, feel like shit, and they perform like shit. so they come to us and say okay you've got you've been on the anaerobic side for so long we've got to give you something that's more pulling you back towards the aerobic side so we look at what cardiovascular adaptation that would be and that would be low low intensity steady state cardio or i don't even want to say cardio because that that kills the semantics of what we're talking about it's low steady state aerobic work under about 65 75 percent vo2 max so this is something Like if you look at Joel Jameson's work and he talks about being in that 130 to 150 beats per minute range for your heart rate, staying in that range and going long term because that's giving you the specific cardiovascular adaptations that you want to lower blood pressure, lower waking heart rate and raise your HRV. And once they get that back into balance, their performance in the gym is going to go up because we recycle energy substrates through the aerobic system, not the anaerobic system. so if you're really really anaerobic and you have shit aerobic fitness you're you're not getting as much with your weight lifting as you could because you can't recycle creatine phosphate and atp fast enough or as fast as you could potentially be doing interesting i like so with these um when you're getting these people into the 130 150 beats per minute zone uh what are you getting them to do are they jogging or rowing i'll let them what is it just i'll let them do whatever they want i don't care if they wank it fast enough to hit 130 they can use sex they can i don't it doesn't matter to me but what you'll find like with a lot of the polo queen guys they can't jog 15 seconds without hitting 180 to 190 beats per minute which is fucking terrible right so a lot of those guys you know we'll put them on you know we'll put them on an incline like a treadmill we'll put them on an incline and have them walk it like almost barely walking and they're already hitting the zone and they're already building up lactate or they're building up hydrogen and their legs are filling that the lactic acid

It burned, if you will. And at that low level of intensity, that's pretty bad. And that's where I was when I first started working on this stuff. I remember being, I think Zoe and I were in Byron Bay, which is about a couple hours south of us, right? And we were out at the beach, and I woke up one morning and I said, okay, my blood pressure is like 145. My waking heart rate is like 78. I'm going to get my shit together before I have a fucking heart attack because that's what's going to happen if I keep on this track. Now, it's not going to happen today or tomorrow, but in 10 years from now, who knows? Who knows what's when it compounds over time? I'm 40 years old, so I don't have the resilience I had when I was in my 20 to abuse my body. So I went out and I would run or not run. This is a slow jog, 9 to 10 seconds, and I was already at 180 beats per minute. And then I would walk. I would walk for 5, 6 minutes, and it took that long for it to get below 130. So that's what I did. I did fucking like seven to nine second slow jog intervals for an hour. And I had to do that for a while until I got back home and could use the treadmill and kind of do the steady state walking. But what's interesting is that it takes about four weeks to start really getting the bulk of those adaptations. And by week six to eight, you're pretty much maxed out unless you keep running harder and harder, which if you're interested in strength and power and hypertrophy, you're probably not going to want to increase your performance in the aerobic work any more than that. Okay. And then once you get there, so let's say your blood pressure goes down to 117 over 77, which would be really good. Let's say your resting heart rate gets down to 58. That would be really good, right? Once you're there, then you can just start pulling aerobic work out and you now adding your tapatas and your HIIT training and your, you know, giant sets, add the stuff in then, because you're going to get a lot more out of it. Right. When you, um, when you went through this, did you lose much, uh, size? Would you say, would you, I mean, like body fat, I guess, would have come down a little bit. Um, do you think you lost muscle tissue doing it or do you think you could retain it? Well, if that's, I did lose muscle tissue, but I wanted to, because like in the last three years i've sat around 112 to 118 right and it got to a point where you guys know how it is you can't buy shit off the rack everything has to be custom tailored you're buying you got a 30 36 inch waist but you're buying 40s and having somebody bring them in or just wearing a belt because you can't fit your legs into them yeah it got to be a pain in the ass right so and then there's a lot of thought process out there with the doctors that I know that say that your BMI is important, even if you're big and jacked and you think you're fit. Right. So the larger you are, the typically in nature, the faster you're going to die, right. The higher your case of all cause mortality. So I started thinking about that and I said, you know, fuck, I'm having a midlife crisis. Um, I'm going to go ahead and start working on this. Now I'm going to try to get into the nineties, which for me was very difficult with all the running and all that. And I think I got down to like one Oh four, one Oh five and it kind of stop. And then I looked and said, well, all of my markers look really good. What the markers that don't look good now are that my strength and my power is going down and my size going down. Cause I wasn't, I wasn't emphasizing that. So I was barely lifting maybe two times a week and I was doing mainly gymnastics work. But what's been interesting is now I haven't really done any aerobic work in last year and my blood pressure still sits below one 20 over 80. So it sits below that. My resting heart rate is usually about 54 to 56. My HRV is usually in the 70s. So all of those numbers still with 12 months of not even training and either stuff look really good. And I've been doing more anaerobic work. And what's happened is my anaerobic work and my work capacity has gone up tremendously. So I can go in the gym and hammer it in the gym. And I don't even get tired. Okay. Luke, do you use the blood markers as your kind of gauge of progress? or do you have like a certain benchmark for someone to be able to do like a, like a joke, for example, that you say you should be able to do 45 minutes while staying in the, in the zone of one 30 to one 50. I mean, I think, I think it's pretty fair to say you should be, you should be able to do 30 to 45 minutes at a steady pace, like not, you know, elite level runner pace, but you should be able to do that at a swift walk or a slow jog and maintain your under one 50 beats per minute. I think that's pretty fair. Um, If you want to test, like, I don't really use blood markers for this, but if you look at, like, we use a modified Cooper's test. So that's what we will do. So we'll have somebody do a 12-minute time trial on whatever equipment they want, but it has to be something that gets their heart rate as high as possible. So, like, we'll use, we'll tell people to use things that's already familiar. So I've got guys that are swimmers. They swim. I have guys that love the concept, too, so they row. If they like to run I like them to run What you don want them to do is you don want them to do this test on a piece of equipment they unfamiliar with and don have the right motor patterns for it So you go as hard as you can for 12 minutes And the first test you log distance because you going to compare that with the one you'll do in say three months or every quarter or so. You want to look at your maximum heart rate because the higher your maximum heart rate is, the younger your cardiovascular system is. And so you look at that and then you look at the difference between that and your waking heart rate. So for me at 40, my projected beats per minute is supposed to be, if you look at 220 minus my age, I'm supposed to be sitting at about 180, but my maximum heart rate is actually about 198. And the way you figure that out is by doing the modified Cooper's test and go as hard as you can. And then you use something like the Polar Beats app for the iPhone or the Android and use a Polar H10 monitor. And that app will tell you what your maximum heart rate is. So then you get those two numbers, maximum heart rate with a waking heart rate. The gap in between those is very important. You want that gap to be as broad as possible. So just again, because I've got my numbers on top of my head, 198 for maximum heart rate. Then I look at resting heart rate about 54 beats per minute. That's really good. That means really good, really high functioning cardiovascular system. Then I want to look at the average heart rate right so there's a sweet spot in programming and i think in general population where you want about your average heart rate you wanted about 83 or 84 percent of your maximum heart rate which that app will also tell you if you're above that then you're more aerobic if you're under that you're more anaerobic and depending on what outcome you want that can be good or bad. Like for me doing all the aerobic work, I got up to like in the 93, 94%, which means you can go for a long time, but you can't produce any power anymore. You have no power endurance. But then if you look at most trainees that only do interval training and plyometrics and heavy lifting and high threshold stuff, they'll be really low and they can produce power, but they can't produce power over and over and over, right? So they typically end up gassing out in the game. If you look at that 83, 84, 85% range for most of your athletes that have to produce force over and over and for most of your general population, that's a really good area to be in. Interesting stuff, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Adam, what are we taking you out for a jog then today? Fuck that. Let's go. You've got to film it though. We were in LA last month and I convinced Adam to come on a hike with me up the Ronin Canyon, right? and I think within about two minutes he was pouring sweat popping and popping it was going to be, I don't know if I can do this How hot was it? It was pretty hot, we were topless and he wrapped his t-shirt around his head to make sure he didn't get sunburned You know you were talking earlier about losing the hair, well sadly I'm going through I have to take precautions. While we're on the subject of cardiac health aside from the training stuff that you talk about. Do you have any specific foods or supplements that you're a fan of for those listening to this that can give you that one to two percent benefit? Yeah. So realistically, CoQ10 for sure. There's a large amount of CoQ10 in the heart. There's a large amount of CoQ10 in the mitochondria, right? And you recycle a lot of that, but a lot of people have issues recycling it and you don't get a lot from your food. So I highly recommend most people take you know 100 or 200 milligrams if you bickle and all that's the form i'll typically use um if you're on a statin we'll typically talk to it we'll talk to your doctor first because we don't just give people that are being seen by a doctor stuff we'll we'll say you know statin um you know here's the literature showing three to four hundred milligrams of coq10 what that can do for the electron transport chain to help give you more to eliminate fatigue and eliminate some of the other things that are happening to your clients we do a lot of mitochondrial support when we first start training somebody in that prepping to prep least mode phase. So we'll give CoQ10. We'll give things like micronized PQQ. We'll give things like fulvic acid or shilajit. We'll give things like aflopoic acid, the R-isomer. We'll give people more acetylcarnitine and things like that. Those are the things we typically see that people are having an issue with. And we give thorneurochondria. That's the one that I'll typically give people because you can take three of those twice a day. And it has a lot of this stuff other than the fulvic acid, other than the PQQ. It has most of everything we just talked about. As far as foods, if you don't, this is a hard one because the good majority of CoQ10 is going to be in like beef heart, which a lot of people go ooh I won eat that You know it hard to get people to eat brains and hearts and stuff like that But if you can if you can get you some beef heart and cook it up rare there's a ton of CoQ10 in, and you do lose a little bit in the cooking, but if you cook it rare, you keep a lot of it. Or throw it in your slow cooker and just keep it in there for eight hours and make a little stew out of it, and it's actually really quite good. Okay, interesting. I guess you could try that. how about uh stress management in terms of mindset psychology you mentioned yoga and stuff like that have you got anything that you practice yourself that you found to be effective yeah that's that's actually a really good question because that's the thing like we're all going to have stress stress is important if you didn't have stress you would die right because you have to have stress elicit an adaptation. Whether that's a good stress or bad stress, it doesn't really matter as far as an allostatic load on the body. It all combines. And we're in this crazy world now where everyone's trying to be like a millionaire at 21. And they're also trying to have kids at 21. And they all want to have a fancy car that they can't afford, a fancy house. And they're all on Instagram talking about how good their lives are. You've got all these people with all this, like, fuck, man. I I tell you what, like the whole social media kills me because we're terrible at it. Like everything we do is just word of mouth and networking. And I hate being on the social media and we're, we're trying to be on it as little as possible in Thailand, but I can already feel my stress going away. Just like leaving my phone at the hotel and saying, fuck it. I'm just not going to play into that. But how many people can really do that? And that's, that's one of those things. it should be an easy thing to get rid of, but it's not for most people. And that's something that people have to really work on. And that's part of program design. We program lifestyle and lease mode type activities and people's training. So we're like, okay, so Sunday, you're not allowed on your phone from 8am to 8pm. And this freaks people the fuck out. And for me, that's the biggest stressor that people have right now, staying on the fucking phone all day. It's scary. So Akash and I have spoken. He's pretty disciplined. He'll put his phone on flight mode at a certain time and there'll be points in the day where I can't get hold of him. And I've struggled to do that, which is worrying. And then last week, my girlfriend and I went out for Nando's and then cinema. And I made a point. I actually switched my phone off in front of her, put it in the car, locked it in the glove box. And it's kind of worrying that I had to make a point of saying to her, look what I've done. And she's like, oh, my God. you should just do this right but it was and i did find like one i genuinely for that maybe three or four hours i felt really really good and just you know yeah there was twice um as she'd gone to the toilet and i was in the queue for getting some drinks and stuff which is by default you know my hands go into my pocket like just to go check um i'm just thinking that's so fucked up that just you know i can't just stand there you know just by myself just queuing up for some popcorn or whatever i had to it's not it's nuts it's crazy i had the same thing right like zoe and i go on a date night or whatever and she goes off to do something to go take a shit or whatever she does and the first thing you whip the phone out and you don't you have nothing to do nothing you just scroll aimlessly rolling and like and then you look around and every single person around you's doing the same thing and then you look and you go oh fuck i better turn this thing off and put it back in my pockets. This is ridiculous. This is getting out of hand for me, you know? Um, and it's hard for us because you, you, and for you guys, you know, you own an online training company. So when, when you're in and people expect you to be on the ball with them 24, 7, 365, if you're online, it's not like when you train in the gym and they schedule when they're coming in and you see them three or four hours a week, they think that, you know, you should be accessible 24 hours a day. And it's, it's impossible to do that. And we've tried to do that in the past and it just can't be on all the time and you know you'll you'll give yourself a fucking mental breakdown but i think the phone is probably the worst thing and and i think it's sad you know how about you give them some crayons and a coloring book or give them a pen and paper let them draw or you know something like that you know they go right to that because they can turn on some light and sound and the kid can get like hypnotized and to get his head into a fucking cartoon and you don't have to hear from the kid for three or four hours i think that is so fucking bad but i don't have kids so what do i know no i i agree with you i see it all the time and then you know they've done that to shut the kid up so they can then go on instagram themselves yeah i see it you know coffee shops and stuff you know i work from working a coffee shop i'll see it where you know a mom and a kid are just sat there and the kids you know playing up and the mom will just give them like an ipad or a phone yeah him up and then she's just like scoring herself yeah and you i see i see in my neighborhood and when i walking around neighborhood i see fathers or mothers and they walking a pram and they on the phone scrolling while they walk And I'm just waiting for one of them to walk that pram right into oncoming traffic because they're not seeing anything going on. So, yeah, my biggest stress thing, that's the first thing. The second thing is teaching clients. We talk about everything as optimal or practical. Like I can tell you an optimal, I could write down a schedule, your optimal day, but you wouldn't be able to do it. So we have to start, we've got to look at the client. We have to write down all the things that stress them out and then start digging for things that they don't realize is stressing them out. And you go, okay, we need to separate this into things that they can get rid of and things they have to manage. For example, you can't just get rid of your kids. I mean, you can, and some people do, but most of our clients aren't going to do that. Like you can't just walk your kid in a fricking dog crate and leave them there with a, you know, towel over it. Right. It's dog food. You can't do that. Like, it's not right. If people get into trouble, they get on the news for that, but you can, you, you can teach them how to manage their reaction to stuff their kids are doing, right. Or that their partner's doing, or that their boss is doing, or that their employees are doing. So you got to teach them how to manage that type of stuff. And, and if it's a lot of that stuff's really out of our, wheelhouse as trainers. And it's a, it's a, that's a good time to say, well, maybe you should go talk to someone and get them with a qualified counselor that can, that's, we'll do a much better job than we will at telling them and giving them strategies of how to manage their own stress. And then the stuff that can get, you can get rid of, like you said, like I can, I can make an agreement with myself that I will put my phone away and I will only like, let's say I'm only going to check my emails at 8am and 8pm, something like that. Or I'm only going to check Facebook at 8am and 8pm, right? I'm going to check my emails. I get emails from 8 to 10 in the morning. And then I maybe four to five at night. So you make these little schedules with yourself. And then you stay the fuck off the stuff because that's the stuff that's really getting everyone all bent out of shape and irritated. Perfect. Yeah, 100% agree. It improves not only just your stress, but your work output and productivity as well. Because you can actually get shit done then, right? yeah that's the number one thing of not getting shit done is being distracted and trying to multi-manage or multi-task between things that don't fucking matter let's um let's switch over to talking about uh trainers and coaches now so what are the biggest mistakes that you feel trainers are typically making with their clients um i think a lot of mistakes people are taking dogmatic viewpoints on things um they get locked into uh they get locked into certain ways of doing things like, well, I work at a place and we only do low carb. So everybody's going low carb or it's all high protein and protein's king and all this. And then, um, you know, we have to, everyone does hit training and a German body comp and you're going to train four days or whatever the fuck. Or you go on the other side and you get people like, well, I'm a professional runner. I've always stayed lean running. So I'm going to take my 150 kilogram women and we're going to go for a run every day. And then they're all in his friends with the daughter, this friend's orthopedic place like six months later getting knee replacements. People have to stop getting so dogmatic. The whole point of this is to learn from every single place you can and learn from people that don't take dogmatic approaches, learn the physiology about why things work, then you can determine what to do. And that's kind of what we do with our courses at Muscle Nerds is we teach people how the stuff works in the cell. If you do this, this is what's going to happen in your cell. This is what's going to happen to your hormones. Okay. If you then do this after that, this is what it's going to do next. That way you understand that everything you're doing to the body is all about adaptation, right? You feed your body some information and then your body says, okay, this information tells me to do this thing. And then it adapts in that direction. And then you push them in one direction until you've got that adaptation and then you find a different adaptation to work on or multiple adaptations at once. So like we talked about earlier, if you think about, you know, somebody is all they've been doing is powerlifting and sprints and they come to you because they're out of breath. They building, like they're getting that lactic acid burn climbing one flight of stairs. And then they need a post-workout shake after climbing a flight of stairs, maybe a cigarette too. I don't know. Um, they're, they're hard and beating out of their chest while they're, while they're sleeping. So they're like, I don't know why I have such sleep issues. Okay. Let's take your, your morning heart rate. You take your waking heart rate, you're sitting at 95 beats per minute. I can tell you why you're not sleeping. Your body thinks you're fighting an animal where you're trying to sleep, right? So if we know that, then we can pick the right stimulus to force the right adaptation. But in order to do that, you have to learn how the body works. And trainers don't know enough about how the body works. And trainers need to stop focusing on nutrition until

get their credentials because most of them have no idea what they're talking about. And they get locked into one type of ism, some type of nutritional religious kind of dogma where they're like, I'm either paleo or I'm keto or I'm vegan or I'm vegan, keto, paleo, or, you know, they get locked into that. And so they give every one of their clients that whether they need it or not. And then it works for part of their clients and it doesn't work for the rest of them. So those are the main things. There's a huge gap in education where people are learning a lot of methods, but I don't know how to apply it. Right. So, you know, we can go to Home Depot and we can buy a saw, we can buy, you know, a hammer drill and we can buy table saw and we can buy all this cool equipment. And then, you know, what's going to happen if we don't learn how to use it, we're going to cut our fucking hands off. Right. So this is what's happening is people are learning all these methods and tools. They have no idea what to do with them because they don't actually know how the body works because they skipped that whole part of the personal trainer certification because it's boring or whatever, you know, but that's the stuff that's super important. I was going to say, who do you learn from most currently? So currently, like the people that I go to kind of that on that kind of that next level or two levels up from from where I was a few years ago. So like, Dr. Brian Walsh, I've been, I've been learning from Brian Walsh for years. Dr. Ben House, Dr. Mike T. Nelson, Dr. Mark Ruscio, Dr. Serrano there's a lot of guys that I learn from that you know have either they either have MD or PhD or DO or whatever after their name so that's kind of where I go because what we tend to do at Muscle Nerds is I go talk to all the really really smart guys and then they say all this gibberish shit that nobody understands and then I interpret it and I turn it into meathead talk and then I go down and I go okay lift 8 to 10 because this is what it's doing and making you fucking jacked like that. So that's, I'm basically like, I'm Google translator between scientists and meatheads. Right. So that's a good tagline. Yeah. What's that? That's a good tagline. Yeah. Man, so we trademarked that. Um, I'm going to have to, you know, I've been getting in them, uh, Mike, is there tell stuff lately? And I've been a big fan of Alan Aragon for a while, you know, and you know, I love to hate law McDonald because he's such a, he's such an asshole and we've had words before, but he is super smooth. He's a small guy. No, he's brilliant, but he's just a big turd. But you know, you gotta, you gotta respect what he's done. And you know, so you can't, you can hold part, you can hold his personality against him, but you can't hold his brain against him because the guy's brilliant. Um, who else? Uh, Dr. Ken Kanakin in Canada. I think that guy, I think he's under, um, underappreciated in the industry. Dr. Darren Willoughby is another one of them. So yeah, there's a ton of guys that are so good to go learn from. And all of them are in that functional medicine kind of realm, right? They are. And I hate that term so much. At least it's gotten to a bastardized version of what it was before. Like when I first started learning that stuff from some of these doctors, functional medicine was, you know, you got your MD or your DO, and then you went for your chiropractic. Then you went to two more years of schooling to become a functional medicine doctor. And you were supposed to be medical to get it. That being said, I've done all the certifications, but I just don't talk about it because I don't think it's in my wheelhouse to talk about medicine. At least, you know, it's got to be at a point where you're kind of working with a doctor and saying, okay, I'm learning this to talk to doctors, to send my clients to doctors, to let the doctors make the final decision. and to be able to have integrated personal training where we're all working together and the doctor's not giving someone sports nutrition advice. That's what my credentials are. He's not giving them training advice. That's what my credentials are. But I'm also not giving the client medical advice because that's his credentials. It would be as silly as muscle nerds coming up with a proctology certification. So we're going to teach you how to fucking palpate prostates and tell somebody if they get cancer, right? or we're going to do a muscle nerds home study um open heart surgery thing it's just two days no problem you can go ahead and open people's chest and work on their hearts that sounds ridiculous but it sounds even more ridiculous to me when you've got people that don't have a medical license trying to give medical advice that people should be giving when they have 8 to 12 years of medical training, right? But I'm all for, yeah, I'm all for people like Dr. Walsh and Brian Walsh, I mean, Dr. Walsh and Ben House, people like that. And Ben's not, he's not a doctor nutritional since he a PhD but he really fucking smart And he knows where that line is where it shouldn shouldn shouldn be crossed And so it you going to learn that type of stuff You You gotta know where the line is and where it shouldn shouldn shouldn be crossed and so it you gonna learn that type of stuff you got to know where the line is and where you starting to overstep that line where you kind of need to have some reality and back off and start referring out to people that you trust definitely agreed great tip for trainers yes and here's the thing personal trainers right now don't know enough about training physiology and training culture and training methods they They've got enough shit to learn without trying to jump into the medical field. Yeah. Because I can tell you right now, man, when we get people in, like people that come to us, we always want to see what they've been doing. So we see all the coaches' programs and shit, and sometimes we look at them and go, what is this garbage? Like none of it makes any sense whatsoever. And you see people on Instagram posting their work, and it's like, whoa, oh, my God, what the fuck? like they don't they don't they've got enough information to learn to master their trade without trying to pick up other people's sorry i just went on a tirade that's one of those things that's what we like we like yeah we actually answered all our questions yeah there you go over to you luke every uh every time i open my mouth and talk about this shit and get bent i piss off at least 25 people so i'll have 25 pieces of hate mail coming at me that when this thing's release and oh people people will assume i'm talking about them when i'm not i'm just talking about in general but you know if you're listening to this and you go i wonder if who's talking about me well maybe you should start thinking about what you're doing in your practice yep i like that what's the um biggest piece of dogma at the moment that's pissing you off the biggest piece of dogma yeah that's fucking keto shit man you know keto keto cures everything like i try to rub keto on my dick thinking you'd make my dick bigger but it still hasn't worked so i'm you know i'm giving that up you know there's almost so much coconut oil and butter you can rub in your pecker you know it's it's people are acting like this keto thing is brand new and that's what's killing me like i was doing the ketogenic dieting when i was 18 and that's 22 years ago like but just like you know next year everybody would be in bell bottoms and butterfly collars you know and everybody like just in dancing to disco everything always comes around yeah it's a full circle and you'll have a new generation and you get a new generation coming around and they'll latch on to something the next one will be everyone will go back to high cards you're starting to see that right now people are starting to swing back to high cards and very low fat it's like god damn can we just settle somewhere in the middle yeah there's a sweet spot and like you look at like keto is great for a lot of situations and it's horrendous for a lot of situations low fat and high carb great for a lot of situations horrible for a lot of situations some people need to be just in the middle and that's a code that when you look at a sports nutritionist or a dietician nutritionist uh job is to figure out where that is for that person right so like i have people i'm dealing with in australia where they were on ketogenic diets and they're footy athletes so they're on the field for 90 minutes and they're on low carbs and they can't figure out why they can't perform while they're constantly injured and while they're so tired all the time. We jack their carbs up and bring their fat down real low, and all of a sudden they're the fucking captain of the team. You look at the other side of the equation, there's a lot of general population that are swinging to the high carb, and they're probably eating too many carbs because they're just simply not utilizing a lot of it because they don't train really hard and they don't train with enough volume. So in a lot of cases, some of these people, maybe not keto, but maybe they do need lower carb. Maybe you are trying to lose body fat. you have poor metabolic flexibility maybe your RER is is not where it needs to be and you can use fasting and you can use low carbs and keto to get your body to burn more fat at rest awesome that you can kick the carbs up to fuel the workouts um and then some people need to be somewhere in the middle you know but some of that stuff some of the some of the insulin hypothesis shit that people are still preaching that is complete bullshit um the the hate against vegans and vegetarians always pisses me off. Why can't people shut up and let people just eat the way they want to fucking eat? But then on the opposite side, you get all the vegans telling us meat eaters that we're going to hell because we're killing baby fucking bambis and shit. There's a lot of stuff that pisses me off about this industry. So there's never a dull moment. So Luke, with the keto stuff, what are your thoughts on the exogenous stuff? So, you know what, I've kind of changed my opinion a tiny bit on this. But I think it's brilliant if it's for the right situation. So like if you have epilepsy and you don't want to have to like not eat any carbs the rest of your life to manage your seizures, they're brilliant. If you want to use them, you know, some people talk about the cognitive effort, the cognitive benefit and all this I think a lot of this for a lot of people at this point is pretty much placebo right Because I haven seen a lot of studies that talk about the benefits What we know at this moment is the brain works best on carbs anyways, right? But I would say, you know what, if you like really expensive energy, cool. If you got epilepsy, cool. But I don't know, man. I don't use them. The last time I... Somebody gave me a bottle to try to use and it just gave me the Hershey squirts. I lost weight because I kept shitting with diarrhea all day. I don't know. Honestly, my ketones never really got any higher than if I just stopped eating as many carbs and trained really hard. I can do that for free. Why would I put a macronutrient in my body that I can actually make for free? You can also, on the flip side, say, well, you can make carbohydrates and fat. You can, but you still have to eat enough calories and you still have to eat for performance and you're not going to make sugar fast enough for high performance and bodybuilding and things like that. So like for me, I like what Dr. Mike Nelson says about this. He goes, you think about ketones, they're an emergency backup system for when you're a shitty hunter and a shitty gatherer. So why the fuck would you want to purposely tell your body that you're shit at hunting and gathering? Like that, it doesn't make any sense. If we can, if you want good performance in the gym, you'll eat your fucking carbs and you'll love it. Because who doesn't like carbs? And I spent so long under Charles hating carbs because he told me that, you know, you couldn't eat them and they're the devil and that's why everybody's fat. And yeah, you know, kicking them out of my diet got me really lean, but it's probably because I was able to, I had better satiety for me and it worked, it just worked better for me because I, you know, you're cutting out four or 500 calories that you would have been eating from carbs and for me a low a low carb diet i don't get hungry right so it's easy for me but then it's hard for me to remember to eat whereas on a high carb diet it makes me a little hungrier but i'm able to get the calories in i would rather eat a high calorie high carb meal plan and still lose weight than to fuck around with you know high fat or moderate fat and be hungry all the time and eating fuck all calories because i can get lean on 4 000 calories on cars because I can kick my fucking bodybuilding up and I can kick up my sprints and I can do more work in the gym, which is what I want to do anyways. Speaking of dieting and getting leaner, are you still doing the mini cut? You know what? Fuck you. You know what? Here's the thing. That lasted a good three or four days, actually. It worked for about three or four days and it was working wonderfully well. And you know what? I got stressed out, business stuff, all this. And all I did was binge for like a week and a half. Right. So, and I mean, binge, I went, I was sitting at like 95 K and I got back up to like 103 within a week and a half. But, you know, that's the thing. And this is one thing that the listeners have to understand is most people who think that they're eating a calorie deficit, they're not thinking about those massive binges when their body finally says, fuck you, I want food. And so you'll see a food log from Monday to Friday. It looks really good. And then they won't tell you about that weekend blowout where they had 10,000 calories over the weekend. And they can't figure out why they're not losing weight. I swear to God, I'm following the plan. Well, they didn't see that whole Mexican food meal with eight margaritas for 5,000 calories. And then they didn't talk about all the Krispy Kreme donuts because they couldn't stop eating them because their brain was starving. But they don't talk about that stuff. So, yeah, I think if Zoe and I hadn't been so stressed out during that period that I could probably make it happen because I don't have a problem not eating. But when you combine not eating with stress, yeah, your hypothalamus is going to go, fuck off. I want food and I want it now. And then you'll, you don't, it doesn't give a shit where it comes from. Yeah. It's an interesting one. Like the mini cut stuff is like, for me, from a mindset point of view, doing the longer, you know, more gradual prolonged diets. I just, I get so bored. I'm an all or nothing, like all in kind of sprint kind of guy. So for my psychology, and this is why I try to put, I try and put it across when people read the article and then, you know, clients say, Oh, I do that. It's like, I've just got that mentality where for me, it suits me. I can tell myself, right, it's 35 days, suck it up. And I've done a few of them now to the point where I don't binge afterwards. You know, my body weight is still only about 10, 12 pounds up from what it was. But for most people, they would definitely go off the rails. Whereas I'm the opposite in that, like Akash's last prep was 21 weeks. If I did that, just the monotony of it has me climbing the wall. So I prefer to torture myself over a short time period And normally I the same as you And I was talking to Christian Thibodeau about this once And he was like bro you that you got that personality type where you just need to go hard for three weeks, and then back off for a week, or back off for two weeks. But he goes, you, you need to just go hard. And I think part of what happened with me this time was I was also trying to, my training volume was too much. And you know, I said, Hey, we're going to, we're going to Thailand. I want to look good. So I was like killing it in the gym. And then after I started binging, I went, okay, let me think about this. And I calculated it out. How many calories I'm probably burning a day from, from the, uh, from the training. And it was something like I was supposed to be eating like 4,500 calories a day. And I was eating like 13 to 1800. And so again, when you look at like, you look at that, I'm going, wow, I had a whole calorie deficit for one week in like two and a half days. And so of course my body's going to rebel at that point. So yeah. So what I should have been doing was saying, all right, so I'm going to walk for a couple hours a day and maybe train for 40 minutes, maybe three, three or four times a week. That's not what I was doing. I was going fucking hard. Yeah. It was done. It was done. And I, you know, I started, I started hormone replacement therapy therapy again i'm supposed to be on it but i'm too lazy to do it so i go to like i go for like periods of nine weeks where i don't take any of my testosterone and then i'm like man why do i feel like such a little bitch i'm crying all the time and then i'm like oh yeah i'm supposed to be i'm supposed to be taking my testosterone so then i put the testosterone back in and i put on like fucking 10 kilos in a week i'm like because uh my last test i had like testosterone like hundreds which I don't know about. I can't remember what you guys use in the UK, but in America, basically the spread is 369 or 385 to about 1190. And mine was like 100 and something the last time. So I think Zoe probably has more testosterone than I have. But I just get so lazy with the shots. So I actually started taking the shots again, right around the time I decided like a week or week and a half before I started the mini cut. And then I was just ravenous hungry all the time. I would have eaten this table sitting in front of me if, uh, if I could have gotten some barbecue sauce on it. Speaking of barbecue sauce, um, Texas or Brisbane, this is remind me of your food. There's no, no comparison, no comparison. Um, Texas all the way, especially, especially the hill country where I'm like close to where I'm from. Like Austin, Austin has, I think like five of the top barbecue restaurants in all of America. So, and they're all, and they're all within driving distance from each other. Like you could hit all of them up in one day if you wanted to. Awesome. Are you permanent in Brisbane now? Yeah, I am. Yeah. So I'm here at least, you know, at least until my visa runs out and we renew it. Hopefully they'll renew it. So, um, but there is some really good food in Brisbane. Barbecue is not it. Now there is a place down the street from us that does a Wagyu brisket. but they do it sous vide and it's it is it's unreal really like it's it melts in your mouth it's crazy if you go back to your 20s what would you do differently i'd beat the shit out of myself i would absolutely i would i would i would get i would beat me half like almost to death and then i would go sit with myself in the hospital and go these are the things you're not going to do and these are the things you're going to start doing and i would say don't be so dogmatic stop worshiping gurus, learn as much about physiology as you can, and then learn more. And then after that, learn some more and never stop. I would, I'd probably finish college, I would tell myself to be more empathetic. Don't fat shame people have some empathy, understand that sometimes things are psychological for people. And it has nothing to do with that. They don't want to be that way. It's that there's stuff that's out of my wheelhouse that they need to talk to somebody about and start actually giving a shit about people. I'd say, what else would I say? Don't get on the gigantic supplement program bandwagon and learn the kinetics of how this stuff actually works and stop over giving people stuff. But that's what we were trying to do. Yeah, there's so much, man. There's so much. And stuff that I do now that I would have told then, I would have said like for general population never go under six reps they don't really need it i would say you know um aerobics aerobics aren't the devil but make sure people are using the type of equipment that allows them to do it for their orthopedic profile um i would tell myself to take more business classes and learn how money works you know there's stuff like that you know yeah don't don't burn so many bridges you know which is hard for me some good life lessons there Thank you.

Yeah. You mentioned at the beginning when we first got talking that you're going to be coming over to Ireland, London, and so on next. What have you got lined up over here? Ireland will be the Irish Strength Institute Symposium. That is so in July, last week in July. So I'll be giving two talks. The first talk will be the lease mode concept of prepping the prep, what to measure, why, then how to manage it. and then the second part will be kind of how do i transition from out of the least mode phase back in the beast mode and then what am i how do i use those markers that for planned overreaching and deloads and things like that and then um i'll also be talking about like different types of diets that are better for each situation like for instance it when you have chronic stress and chronic stress will lead to chronic inflammation it's going to lead to chronic um elevations in things like adrenaline, noradrenaline, and cortisol. And what a lot of those will do is they will shut your insulin receptors down. So a lot of your clients, when you pull them off the carbs and they get a really good response, it's not carbs that's the problem, it's people's bodies. The minute you get them to learn how to relax and get more sleep, all of a sudden they magically become not insulin resistant anymore and they can eat all the carbs, right? So when we first train people, we'll put them on a lower carb type diet, knowing that eventually when we switch them over to the beast mode side, we're going to try to increase their carbs as much as we can to find their tolerance as long as they're staying out of that stress zone, that type of thing. So we'll be talking about that type of stuff. London, we've got our foundations course in mid-August and we've got our program design course in August as well. And then I go to Chicago to teach program design. then I'm probably going to come home and then I have to go back to Canada in October for, we've got Swiss, which if you've never been to that symposium, that's amazing. The Irish Strength Institute symposium is amazing as well. It's, you know, it's relatively new. They've only done it for a few years now. And I hope it gets a lot more steam this year because there's a lot of good people presenting. It's a bunch of smart people and then me. So we've got that swiss swiss i'm i'm i'm definitely the dumbest person presenting swiss i mean there's i mean there's the guys if you look at the swiss lineup they're fucking incredible and they're you're there with about 500 other strength coaches the last time i was there i was talking to uh olympic athlete andre benoit you guys would know through PSP So amazing strength coach And I talking to him and I think Clark Flynn was there I can't remember. And I look over his shoulder, and Kaz Meyer is behind him rolling up a fucking frying pan with his bare hands. Wow. I mean, where else are you going to go where you see, like, fucking Dave Tate and Jim Wendler and Paula Quinn and Cech and all these guys in the same building at the same time? Like it's fucking crazy. Yeah. So you got that. And then we've got a Vancouver, um, foundations course and Atlanta foundations course. And I'll probably go to Texas a bit and I got to come home again. Busy. So you travel, you travel, you do a lot of miles then, right? Cause you're going from Australia to America. Yeah. Yeah. We, I travel a lot and I have for about six years now, basically lived in a suitcase. And this has been the first year that I think this is like my first, other than my trip to Costa Rica to hang out with Ben house and Walsh and, and Nelson, it's, uh, I haven't really been out of the country this year. This is the first where I've actually been in the country most of the year. Usually I spend most of the year out of the country. Uh, how can people, um, find out more information about the muscle nerds foundation course in London specifically? Yeah. If they just, if they just email info at muscle nerds.net, then we can give them all the information. And then we're posting some stuff up at our muscle nerds page on Facebook. So that, and I guess we'll probably post up something on Instagram too, but we've got some spaces still available for that. I think we're going to do it in a larger location and we've done it before. So we've got a lot, a lot, a lot of room and I'd love to get the room packed up, you know, get as many people in there as we can. And the course has changed over what we've done previously. Whereas now we have a lot of, um, we have a lot of pre-course material, like a lot of video stuff and, and things that they would have to work through before they come. They don't have to work through it, but it would benefit them greatly. And then the course, we talk about what they learned in that stuff, and then we fill in the gaps for them, and then we talk about more advanced stuff as well. And we had a really good compliment this morning where one of the guys was like, well, I'm only like two modules deep in your pre-course material, and it's already worth the investment I paid for it, and I haven't even been to the seminar yet. I would tell you the bioenergetics lectures that Zoe did, that would be worth it just for that. Because you learn basically learn like how your body takes food and turns it into energy And it goes all the way from how you break the stuff down through different enzymes how it gets into your body how it gets into your cell then where it goes through that process and then how you make sure you don't have any nutritional gaps for it i mean right there if you learn that you won't have any problem anymore with nutritional program design awesome yeah that's great and um so aside from the info uh email address how else can they find you personally if they want to find information on you, follow you on social media, is the Muscle Nerds page best? The Instagram page is Muscle Nerds underscore health. Mine is just my name, Luke Lehman. And most of the stuff that I post on mine is either me bitching or like stupid memes and penis jokes and things like that. So, yeah, so I throw up randomly on both of them. So following both would be cool. Everyone listening should definitely follow them because we want people to follow and we don't want to pay for it because I think that that's the worst thing you can do is buy your followers. That's another... What else is pissing me off about the industry? People buying followers online is ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah, so they can find me there. They can look me up on Facebook, Luke Lehman, picture me hanging down upside down on the yoga sling thing. I saw that this morning when I was talking to you. I thought, what's the picture? Yeah. Hey, man, like I said, don't be dogmatic, guys. Learn different shit. I went and did silk yoga and man, I was horrible at it, but it gives me something to try to work on. New skill. Silk yoga? Yeah. So you had a silk sling hanging down from the ceiling and you do yoga while you're hanging in this sling. Oh, interesting. I never heard of that. That sounds cool. Guys, if you ever have a low back pain or you have issues with your, like your femur acetabulum area, you hang up upside down on these things. You just hang down cross-legged and it just tractions the shit out of your lower back and your femurs. It's freaking amazing. Wow. um let's uh let's move on to just a few rapid fire questions quickly first off say you were to go back through that dreaded um mini cut diet what was the first thing that you eat right afterwards oh the first thing i would eat right after wow that's hard um oh rapid fire rapid fire probably uh pizza pizza good job uh go to drink uh what kind of drink alcoholic ah red wine for sure one? Unless you're in Thailand, then you have to drink local beer because you just can't keep enough water in your body Sweating like a pig And the last one who should we have on our show next Who should you have on your show next you should have zoe zoe actually he hates doing these you should have isaac have you you haven had isaac on have you no he one of my coaches yeah he's good i would say also man i know so many coaches let me think let me think let me think what in what area would you like i give you a list honestly completely up to you we we like covering just very various topics, lifestyle, health, fitness, nutrition. You know, you know, you know, it'd be cool. Like we have a, we have a seminar. We haven't done it internationally yet. Um, but it's called when it's not about the food and we do it in, uh, Australia, New Zealand, and hopefully next year we'll be able to bring it overseas. But it's all about the psychology of self-sabotage and why your clients are fucking up their diets and that it's not really in a lot of cases, not their fault. It's trauma and traumatic things that are going in their brain. And that's why they keep regressing into hedonistic type impulse behavior because he acts as like a shield and like a suit against things. So, and that is taught by myself. But the main lecture for that is Nick Symes, S-Y-M-E-S. And she's in New Zealand. It's amazing. S-Y-M-E-S, yeah? Yeah, S-Y-M-E-S. She's amazing. her get her and her husband on roger because he she's really quiet and reserved and he's a fucking maniac we'll reach out to them thank you yeah you're welcome yeah let me know and i could get you a list of people that would be quality really good guys really appreciate that thanks luke and akash anything you want to add to the end no perfect um if anyone uh if everyone anyone who's enjoyed today's episode with Luke, please give it a share, rate our show and spread the word with your friends and family about Luke and his work. Follow us more. Head over to www.rntfitness.co.uk and you can find us on Instagram at rnt underscore fitness or at Akash Vigela or at Adam Haley with the number one at the end. Thank you for listening. Yes, thanks very much for that, Luke. Yeah, you're welcome, guys. I can't lose this time