Luke Leaman - Prepping To Prep Gut Health Ep 105

# Luke Leaman - Prepping To Prep Gut Health Ep 105

**Channel:** Under The Bar
**Published:** unknown
**Source:** podcast

Logitech Let's get rid of it Logitech, enter the data Time to get serious, bro Tom, check the cargo hold. The Angry Pirate is on board. The Angry Pirate on board. Have we got the bucking bronco? Too late, Tom. We're out of here. Flight mode. Do you remember when you were a kid? Did you ever used to do this? And just see, because you can just do that for so long. You can. Yeah. So I used to do that. I used to lie on my bed and do that. And then I used to lie on my bed with a basketball and just shoot it up to the roof and just try and just give him just the lightest touch. I could just do it for hours. Obviously when I should have been doing schoolwork. Schoolwork. Homework. How ridiculous was schoolwork? I mean, how ridiculous is school when you think about it? Like, you're just in there and you think, well, who is this person trying to teach me these things? And it's just everything's so irrelevant. Yeah, a bit of German. Schuss, oui. Schuss. I think that's German. Is that French? Is that German? That might be French, mate. French. Notre Dame, RIP. Yes. And the old hunchback was stuck in there, I think, somewhere. He was out back having a durry. He just flicked it. He flicked it. Like that girl this morning walking in. See, he just flicked it on the ground. That's what he did. The hunchback. He said, over his shoulder. The next thing you know. The next thing you know. It was like Ash Wednesday all over again. Anyway. Welcome to another episode of Under the Bar podcast. This should be a good one. We've got Luke Lehman from Muscle Nerds. Minus the gorilla suit. Although, relatively staunch. Staunch-ish. Yeah, it's alright to say, oh, I'll get rid of my gorilla suit. But I'm still pretty big anyway. It's funny, I was talking to one of my long-term clients, Lenny Chad, who's just rebranded and reopened his gym in Bondi, Signature Fitness. With Paulie out there. Paulie Stevenson out there, right-hand man, running all the education. Yep. But he was saying, we're talking about Luke Lehman, and back in the day he had, I think Lenny might have had a bio-sig. Bio-sig. Or a PICP or something at his gym. And he said, I took Lehman out for dinner one night, and he said it was just uncontrollable, like alpha of all alphas, and just he was big and, you know. Back in the day. Yeah. He's turned a new chapter. He's a muscle nerd now. Loose cannon. But, yeah, he was delightful in the studio, although full of beans, full of energy. Yeah. That was the modafinil. Ephedrine. Ephedrine. Ephedrine. Ephedrine he had had. So this is part two of that extended chat that we had with Luke, and I think you guys will really enjoy this one. So he talks about the prepping to prep concept. Yeah, I've done a slight spin on that where not so much I've taken through it, but it's more, hey, get yourself sorted, come back and see me. Go do your prep before prep. Yeah. But they actually, that's part of what the systems that they use with muscle nerds, yeah? Yes. That's part of the process. Which is very good. We discuss reverse dieting once again. He's got to say get rid of it, surely. Get rid of it. Application. time and a place. I think he makes the point that for very high level athletes where everything becomes more and more extreme, then yes, a little bit of reverse dieting is not a bad idea. For the average competitor, look, just get calories back up, get the body fat back on, and get on with life. Seems to make a bit of sense. Then we go into gut health. The elephant in the room. The bucking bronco. The bucking bronco in the room. Calypso. Yeah, yeah. All right. And so lots of stuff covered there. The elimination diet. Did you go into fiber? Gluten fiber Yes Yeah Digestive support ox bile digestive enzymes all this kind of stuff So he gives a bit of an insight into what he does with the muscle and that stuff Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah So well worth a good listen here from Big Luke. Yep. And an enjoyable interview. Excellent. So that's that. And it's been a long time coming. So we're finally happy to have him in the studio. Happy to have him in the studio. Right. And have our way with him. So we can get to him very shortly. Anything else you'd like to say, Roger? Mate, I went to the fitness expo on the weekend. Mate, I texted you. I sent you a text to meet you out front in 10. And I was there for an hour waiting for you. Mate, my phone, I'd been out. It was on low battery and it ran out. Okay. That's fair enough. I didn't, yeah. That's fair, because you missed out. It would have been really good. It was a good. It was a doozy. Yeah. It was a doozy. You would have really, like, your type of clientele, you know, your demographic. Lots of wizard sleeves. There was lots of tattered up wizard sleeves. walking around. T-backs. Yep, yep. A lot of T-backs. A lot of eyeballing. Yeah, yeah. I was sort of walking down like an alleyway in between booths and then there was another one walking towards me and I wasn't looking at him and he wasn't looking at me and we're both sort of looking at each other in the booths and right at the last second we just sort of spin side on and just whooshed past each other. It was close. And as you turn side on you take a deep breath create some intra-abdominal pressure get the chest out. And it was sort of nose to nose we just sort of went past and we looked at each other in the eye and then spun back around and kept walking so there was a bit of that yeah yeah sounds great sounds like just taking taking the Facebook home scrolling page and just turning that into a 3D yes wraparound world it was yeah what a fucking nightmare well I was there because the ICN the international super show Sydney international super show I think they they had their ICN had a better than that it was a super show It was a pretty big line-up. Yeah, it was a lot of competitors and a lot of athletes on stage. Miss JM Fitness, Jess Murphy, long-time friend of the program. Yeah. One of your... One's got a soft spot for Jess. She's lovely and doing wonderful things in the industry. She had a bit of a crew there up in Newey. It's up in Newcastle, the ICN shop there. She had some success there. And this was, I think, her second one for the season with her JM Fitness crew. I think she had 10 athletes up on stage. They're doing amazing things. and quite a bit of success with all her athletes. And funnily enough, she actually got a second and a third in sports model, which was fantastic. And a shout out to Jane Wigan. Not sure if Miss Jane listens, but she's absolutely delightful. Works with the guys from Flex, so Dean preps her. She's a fitness pro, I think. Okay. Miss Jane. And Jane was coaching Jess with her posing presentation and she was arguably, I thought, and I'm not partial to being biased because they're my athletes on stage. Sorry, no one's my athlete, but an athlete I'm involved with coaching. I did think her stage presence, she was having a lot of fun up there and she presented really, really well. So really posed well for the category, which is different to bikini and different to fitness and different to figure and all that type of stuff. But Jess did amazingly well and got a second and third in her two divisions. And funnily enough, her athlete that she prepped beat her. So it was like, if you're going to lose to your own athlete, That's nice. Not too bad. You go first, I'll go second. You go second, I'll go first. Whatever. We're top three, and then she got a third. Again, to her and another girl. It did really well. I think she really enjoyed it. For me, it's great to see her really enjoy it. Quite a bit of stress can come along for the ride with the competition and an athlete on the day. But she would have had quite a few athletes touching base with her. But she managed to do all that, all 10 athletes, and get herself and follow all the bells and whistles and eyes dotting and T's crossed that I require from my athletes. Ticked all the boxes there and got up and had a good time, and she looked amazing. Very good. She's backing that up. We're going to do WBFF. Yeah. So we've got four weeks to dial things in a little further and get her up on the Gold Coast and give that a crack. WBFF. So many federations these days. There's a few, man. There's a few. Actually, you know what? And we'll get to Luke Lehman very, very shortly. One last little thing, Roden. When we had our pre-show discussion last night, you called me and I was in the middle of being on Facebook. So I hadn't logged on for probably at least 10 days or so. And I was being sucked into a whirlwind of just... Without naming names. Without naming names. But there was a very interesting post from IFBB Pro Andrew Hudson, who we had the chance to... I think he might be worth getting on the show, actually. He's an awesome guy. Yeah. Prepped by our very own, well not our own, but we'll claim him as our own, Broderick Chavez. Evil genius. He preps him for, at the moment, he's his coach. And he written quite a lengthy post about coming together as people and as a sport and all the federations All this disjointed Disjointed and With us or against us type mentality Yeah, and I thought it made a lot of sense and very reflective of him as a human being. As soon as I met, like the second he walked in the door at the seminar down in Melbourne, I just immediately liked him. Despite the gargantuan frame that he has... Proportions that he has. Yeah, he's just got a warmth and a humility about him that's very, very appealing. And an honest, I think, as well. Yeah, absolutely. And a genuine sort of character. Yeah, I saw that post, but unfortunately for me, it fell into that a little bit too long. You know, I just switched off. I can't read that. It's more than a few words or it's not a video. I can't do that. Well, if it wasn't him, I wouldn't have read it. Yes, but I did. I tell a lie. I did skim through it, and I got the gist of it for sure, and it was, yeah, he has a valid point. Like you said, I think it's a reflection on him. Mate, one of the, okay, this is the last thing. Last, because we've got Luke Lehman coming up. Minus the gorilla suit. Talking to Andrew about his training, and it was in the midst of you. He's a volume guy. He's a volume, he's talking about volume. So he will go in, like, say he's training chest. He'll go in and set up the incline bench and he'll be in there for 90 minutes to 120 minutes, two hours, just doing incline bench presses. So he'll go and grab the 40s or the 50s it might have been and he'll do... Does he squint when he grabs them? There you go, 40s or 50s. And do like 30 sets of 10. And that's his chest workout. He'll just do it. Oh my God, you're suggesting that maybe we don't need as much exercise. Miss Murphy, are you hearing this? Maybe we don't need so much. maybe we can do the same thing over and over. Until we exhaust it. Yeah. But I love that. Yeah. But it takes a certain breed to be content with that type of training. A certain breed. As he was telling me, it made me think. I was like, that would kind of be fun. I could see the appeal to that. Just get your head down, get into a zone, and just do. Just get your volume done. Just get it done. And no rush. Take your time, take your rest, and just get 30 sets. Beautiful. He actually, when he was, guys, Luke Lehman coming up any second. That's it. We've got the bell. Okay, that's last. Last drinks. Last drinks. Last drinks, guys. He took an athlete I had the privilege of coaching, Scotty Kilby. Little Scotty Jr. Junior bodybuilding. Did really, really well. Struggled with like a few emotional issues in the last sort of since the qualifier to the Arnold's. But he got up on stage and looked really good. and he knows what not to do next time and what to do, and he knows that there'll be challenges. But Hudson took him for a training session. You know, he's starry-eyed as the IFBB pro, and you and I couldn't think of anything freaking worse than getting trained by someone that's notorious for, you know, obscene amounts of... It'll be like getting coached by having a session with Milos again or BPAC. We've done that. BPAC did it for us. Like, sorry, sorry, anyone that wants to abuse me, with training. I've been there, done that once and it was, and Dane paraded me around the gym multiple times. I remember those sessions as well. So I've been, I've been killed. L5 this one. L5, pop, there she goes. Bombs away. Pull it up. That's right, that's right. But Scotty Kilby and Hudson did one down at Warrior Performance with Shannon Green and Lauren. Hey guys. So Brods was down there doing a seminar and in the background Hudson was, Broderick said it was quite amusing. So he was doing talking to the guys, but I hear these sort of moans and grunts in the background as Hudson was leading Kilby around all the equipment. I think it was a chest and back workout or something, and just an obscene amount of volume. And, yeah, it was quite a sight to behold. I think it had DOMS for about a week afterwards, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was quite funny. Yeah, awesome. That's cool. All right. All right, okay. Let's get into it. Let's do it. Angry Pirate. Okay, so before all this, we mentioned the reverse diet. But before that, I think it might be worth going into the pre-prep that you do with guys and how that could actually mitigate all the negative effects of an extreme diet at the back end. Prepping to prep? Prepping to prep. Yeah. So look, the thing is, before someone goes into a photo shoot or on stage or in a competition, we need to have a phase that gets them to the point where they can handle the training. Yeah So you wouldn if you look at the military you don just take an 18 out of high school and just throw him on the battlefield he got to go through boot camp and boot camps to prepare him for war so what we doing what a lot of the trainers are just throwing people into war without getting the prep so people need a boot camp where you're getting all their biometrics healthy they're pooping good they're feeling good they're sleeping good now we can throw them into war right so i completely forgot what you asked so once we've got that we've dieted down we've done the show you're reticent to reverse diet you'll just chuck them back up there here's the thing if you set them up correctly there's no reason to reverse diet or do anything else because in fact the majority of our clients once they've done a show their their statement is can we start the diet now i'm fucking tired of eating so where the fuck do you hear that yeah but i mean there Surely there must be cases where you do have to bring those. I mean, there's always a perfect world. When you're looking at the elite level of like professional bodybuilding where, yeah, like going from amateur to professional, you're going to have to go to a little bit more extremes. More extremes of the supplementation, more extremes of the drugs, more extreme of the dieting because that's, you know, that's their job. And you have to get them to a silly, ridiculous level of conditioning. To get fucking feathering on the ass cheeks and the lower back, you're going to have to diet out of that. But I think reverse dieting is not the answer. They've already dieted for, say, 24 weeks. Why the fuck would you diet for 24 weeks to get them out of that? 100%. Just add the fucking calories back and then pump their training volume up. Let's just delve into that a little bit because it is something that Tommy and I came across. I think Mr. Biolane suggested that he reverse diets because it's almost like you have a hypersensitivity to fat gain post-comp. Yeah, he was suggesting that. I think he was basing it off a study where they'd, a rat study, admittedly, where they'd dieted down these rats, then they fed them up, they took them down to the diet again, it took them twice as long to lose the same amount of fat, fed them again. 300 times faster to put the weight back on. the fat back on and there's some elevation in fat storage enzymes that kicks in once you start dieting people and so that sort of so basically like your ability to store fat after you've done a dieting phase is is enhanced correct yeah they talk about that study in the calorie myth by jonathan baylor and um the thing is we have to be very careful with rat studies because we we we that you look at rat studies because they're fast because a rat's lifespan is really short so But we're not rats. So all we can do is kind of get an idea and infer data that may or may not actually work in humans because some of the enzymes are a bit different. Some of the pathways are a bit different. Now, who's going to actually do a long-term study on this? And there are a lot of studies. But the thing is, if you appeal to any type of extreme when you're dieting, you're going to get extreme negative repercussions. So if you do extreme caloric deficits, I'm not a fan of that. I'm a fan of playing the long game. Let's pump you up and find out where we're exceeding your maintenance diet, and now let's pull 5% out. And when that doesn't work, we'll pull another 5% out. So every week we might make those adjustments if you're not hitting your how many grams of weight loss I want per week. And we don't fuck with it unless they're not averaging out properly. Then we determine why are they not averaging out properly, and then we make our adjustments. But like I said, I've never, never in 20 years had somebody blow up after a show. the only the only i've only had three clients blow up and that's because they got pregnant at the show i've never i've never had a girl that's a testament to healthy hormones if they still manage to get pregnant i guess almost every single person i've ever put on stage placed top top three or top five every single one except for two people and um you know all the girls never lost their periods still placed all the even pros wbff pros not losing their periods um three of got pregnant and that was like in a couple of years that the babies don't look like me so that's good so it wasn't it wasn't me i assure you i don't shit where i eat yeah yeah true true yeah but it doesn't it doesn't you don't have to do and i think one of the reasons why people have issues is they're pulling carbs going into a show is the dumbest thing you can do as you get leaner you're able to handle more and more carbs so stop pulling the fat really low or stop pulling the carbs really low that's the dumbest thing you can do then you get girls or guys in that last week and they're eating thousands of grams of carbs trying to fill out and they end up having to resort to a fucking hamburger and french fries and tons of salt and fat to try to fill back out well like you said you pull those carbs out now those those enzymes to turn glucose into glycogen are now low you're not basically all the sugar you're eating you're just running through glycolysis anyways and you're not actually making the backbone the atp you're not storing it as glycogen and you have to do weird, radical things. If you had somebody that was going into a show sitting at 3,000 calories and they're eating 500 grams of carbs, they're probably not going to blow up after the show. No.

Unless they go crazy and binge on a bunch of fat. Yeah. And I suppose that's the caveat that comes with it. It's often, as you know, if they ate maintenance calories like you told them, they wouldn't – well, I mean, there's obviously going to be some fat gain because to maintain comp lean, they have to do what they're doing, come into the comp. So as soon as the environment changes, there is going to be some degree of fat gain, which is always a big head fuck for them anyway, but it's a reality. but it's when they binge and throw tons of, like, take Cam, you know, we walk him out and eat the food that a competitor would eat. Like you in Canada, you know, you eat a lot of food, guess what? You get fat in a short period, you know. Well, you know, that is going to be far more noticeable when you come out of a comp. You're going to really notice the fat gain. So I think, you know, there's a bit of ownership and responsibility that they have to take for their actions post-comp as well. And you're right, it is a head fuck because if you do a show and you're sitting around 4.5% body fat, like, Like when you first decide to do a show and you get to like a true 10%, you're like, fuck, I'm fucking lean. Yeah. And then you're like, okay, cool. And then you get to eight and you're like, fuck, I've got fucking veins on my fingers and my elbows. And you get down to like four and a half and now you've got fucking veins in your ass cheeks. And you're like, oh, fuck. Now 8% to you is fat. Yeah. So the minute you eat and you get to eight, you're like, oh, God, I'm so fat. I can't post a picture on Instagram. I'll just post old pictures from two years ago. Right. But fuck, man, a true 10% to 12% on someone, like you put somebody in a DEXA and a true 10% to 12%, that's a lot leaner than people think. Most people would be happy with that, but that's the thing. Like when you look at most bodybuilders, and I hate to say this, but it's true, we all got mommy-daddy issues. There's some reason why you went into bodybuilding, and usually for something nefarious, right? It's usually not for a love of bodybuilding. You fall in love with bodybuilding because you're running away from something. That's actually quite refreshing. I mean, you know Dean, and we all know Dean from Flex, but it was, in one sense, him confessing that he actually hated bodybuilding. Like, you know, he loves training, but the dieting, and I think for him, just the reality of the yesterday, he has to, and he's, I mean, there are those of us out there that are great at following plans, but that dude is next level. Bro, he is. And it shows on stage, but, you know, him confessing that he actually hates the process of competition prep and he'll be happy if he never does it again i think he's probably the only person i've ever met that doesn't do bodybuilding for the wrong reason like he he i was talking to him because he lives near me and we get together every once in a while and he's like yeah i just did it to challenge myself i don't really give a fuck if i win or not in fact look at his physique jesus christ but that's like he's he's a fucking robot man when he gets it when he gets it set in his head he's gonna do it he's like a dog with a bone Yeah, 100%. And I think, you know, it's great for business as well. It's probably the reason why he did it, you know, because, you know, yeah, like, yeah, anyway. But doing that for the wrong reasons is indicative. It's not just bodybuilding. I think that's indicative of the industry in general. There are a lot of damaged souls everywhere. But they do surface in the fitness industry. it seems like with the diet Luke that the body is very good at trafficking in fuel sources if you set things up appropriately and I think that's an interesting way as coaches to actually think about putting a diet plan together you know it's fuel for the activity because we talk about general population all your life but if you're not training then all of this discussion is fuckery we had a we had a client she's been working with us for a few months and she's just not really seeing any results and i'm looking at the i'm looking at our we use chronometer to track everything and i'm looking at it like fuck man she's hardly eating something like 1300 calories and we pushed up to 1700 she gained a kilo she's not happy i'm looking at it so then i i asked isaac i said to find out get her training program she's not training with us we're just running her diet so she she sends in her training program i'm looking at it going man this is atrocious like it's fucking horrible and it's just unfortunate because I know the coach that wrote it. But then I look at her check-in sheets and she's only lifting one day a week and she's walking like 200 minutes a week and she plays tennis a couple of times a week. And I'm like, fuck, like 1,700 calories for a girl who's 55 kilos that's doing nothing is nuts. So we fucking drop her down to 1,100. And I hate doing that, but if she's not willing to train, then she doesn't need all those calories. Absolutely. You know, maybe there was some merit in what Charles used to say, you know, earn your carbs. Earn your carbs. Very good. All right, one last topic that we're going to get into today, and that was the gut health. Yeah, we've alluded to it at several stages throughout this whole discussion, so let go balls deep into that First of all I think with gut health and this links into some of the scope of practice as personal trainers apart from suggesting diet plans and foods to eat what are we actually working with here? And when are we looking at referring out? You know what? The thing is, if they do the stress management stuff, if they're doing the visualization, the meditation, if you're balancing out their anaerobic to aerobic fitness, a lot of the gut issues go away. These people with lots of food intolerances, there's a reason. And the main driver of that is the sympathetic nervous system has direct access to the gut. And so here's the thing. Let's say you start overtraining, which is a stressor, and you're not recovering from that. And let's say you're chronically massively under eating. So what will the intestines do in order to get more food? Well, they get more permeable. So the space in between the cells will start to get larger. Your body's trying to get more food in. but it's also going to carry with it food particles that are too large that aren't supposed to be you know you get stuff that's something that's not broken down into a monosaccharide or you get amino acids proteins that aren't broken all the way down you end up getting viruses you get bacteria so you get a bunch of antigen load your immune system sees that starts attacking it now congratulations you've given yourself a food intolerance but it doesn't have anything to do with the food it has to do with the fact that you're probably stressed out and you're not chewing your food because for whatever reason adults don't know how to fucking chew especially personal trainers they basically unhinge their jaw and they deep throat a fucking chicken breast because they're poor at time management they don't give them enough time to eat their fucking 12 meals a day which you don't need to do anyways but so now you don't chew the food so you're lacking mechanical and chemical digestion in the mouth and then you're stressed out all the time because you're not sleeping and you're fucking training too much and you're not balancing out your energetics so now your your gastric juices and your stomach don't work so you're not secreting intrinsic factor and you're not secreting hcl and pepsin like you should you're not increasing cholecystokinin like you should so then when everything goes into the into the duodenum and the upper part of the small intestine it's not broken down like it's supposed to be the pancreas isn't functioning correctly so it's not secreting pancreatic enzymes properly bile we see a lot of bile issues with people so you know and most of this stuff has to do with somebody not being in an anabolic state even though they think they are they're over dieting they're training but they're not recovering so if you're not recovering and you're constantly in a catabolic state you're not going to make the things you need like these enzymes and the bile and the gastric juices and all the stuff and and there's your immune systems jacked up which is causing more stress okay and then what people will do they'll get on elimination diet which i think is great they'll do the food intolerance panels which i think are a fucking waste of money i think it's just easiest just to do the fucking elimination diet and eat stuff you're not used to you know you're not don't typically eat and calm the fuck down just uh before we go on and there'll be lots questions just talk about the elimination diet give it a quick overview of how our listeners could actually do that what does it involve okay here's the thing i'm gonna save a lot of people 500 on a stupid fucking shit panel you just this is what we teach you just you take a piece of paper you write a line down the middle on one side you put yes on one side you put no on the no side you write down everything that's just stapling what you eat like if you like here's common with trainers they eat eggs salmon beef chicken and that's about it right uh they all eat fucking asparagus and broccoli yeah they all like bathe they fucking wash their hair in coconut oil eat coconut oil wank with coconut oil like that's you know they're all eating nuts because you have to do the meat and nuts breakfast you know and then they don't know how to regulate nuts so they're eating like a pinch is like a whole fucking handful yeah you know so you write down all this stuff this is this is your staples this is what you meal prep with you're not allowed to eat that for a few weeks yeah and but let's give yourself on the yes side we're going to give you stuff you can so a kangaroo koala bear zebra whatever the fuck um you change out all your foods And you do that for a couple, like three weeks. And then you try adding in some of the stuff you didn't normally eat and some stuff you'll be able to put back in, some stuff you can't. Typically, we'll have people do this for six to eight weeks, which lines up nicely with least mode. So we do an elimination diet, add aerobics in, cut down some of the neural training. So most of your training is going to be either muscle endurance, strength endurance, metabolic work, maybe some hypertrophy. I hate GVT with a passion, but it works really well because you're using submaximal load. So I think that works really fantastically well. This is the time where you're using structural balance, getting your sleep and lifestyle straight and all that. Cool, you're doing elimination diet. Guess what? You go into an SBP phase, start training hard, and you add all those foods in. Oh, lo and behold, all your fucking food intolerances are gone. Very good, very good. And when they're adding foods in, are they discomfort, bloating? Are you looking for those sorts of things? Yeah, are you belching? You got gas? Does your poop start? You look at the Bristol scale. Are you at a 3 and 4? Are you starting to go to a 1 or a 10? You look at that stuff. Are you bloating? Do you have pain? You know, stuff like that. Are you sleepy? You tired? You foggy headed? It's just, it's very symptomatic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So basically if you eat something, you got a bit, bit crazy then kick it out for a little bit of time. It's not forever Just and then work on that stress management and then take your biometrics and see where you are I have when I have people with a with you know somewhere around 115 over 75 blood pressure a heart rate in the 50s and like in the 60s 70s on a hrv guess what they don't have any fucking food intolerances yeah it's not fucking harry potter magic it's not sorcery it's just physiology yeah very good yeah you mentioned uh just a quick one balancing out the energetics what do you mean by that well let's let's take a typical pollock and trainer and three, two, one wave loading and fucking airdyne sprints. And that's all they do. They've been told that aerobics are stupid. They're going to make you fat and slow in a week. And none of it is founded in any type of science. Uh, what was the other marathon runners or have a high body fat percentage? No, they don't. If you look at marathon runners are fucking shredded. Now they're not big. They're not like, they're not going to want a fucking bodybuilding show, but they're fucking 5% shredded, right? Doesn't mean you need to do a marathon. But if we think about all these adaptations, if I'm constantly doing really high neural work, lactate work, lots of sprints and things like that, you're constantly putting yourself into a sympathetic state, right? Your body, when you get on an aerodyne and you do 30-second HIIT intervals, your body doesn't know what you're doing and you're doing it for fitness. It thinks you're being chased by a fucking animal. When you go to a squat and you're doing sets of three to five and it's a lot of neural work, your body thinks you're wrestling a fucking animal. And there's nothing wrong with that if the other 23 hours of the day you're doing things to put yourself in that you're doing lease mode shit to put yourself in a parasympathetic state but if you do that and all that neural work and all that really high intensity stuff and then you go and you're beasting life and you're not ever getting a break you fucking eight-year-old smoking crack i don't know your dog got pregnant or something and whatever the fuck is going on like you're always in that jacked up nervous system state and you're not getting any relief so you know probably the best thing for you to do is you know what's the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over expecting different results okay do the opposite go do some aerobic work and see how if you can't sleep do four weeks of concentrated aerobic work and i'm talking like 60 minutes a day even 130 beats per minute and you'll fucking sleep like a baby after a couple of weeks of that if you can't shit right go do the aerobics for two weeks get those metrics really good your heart rate will go down your blood pressure will go down your hrv may or may not go up there's other factors with that like most people are walking around with the subclinical infections in their guts and things that are causing their nervous system to be jacked up but um or they've got you know early childhood traumas or some type of issue where they get mommy daddy issues which can keep the hrv down as well which is why we promote counseling and teach a course on that not to teach a course to counsel but how to find help um but yeah it's it's looking at this and saying all right i don't want to be an anaerobic machine i don't want to be an aerobic machine i want to be somewhere in the middle and depending on my activity or my sport i want to lean one way or the other yes it's like with mma if you do we do teach a modified cooper's test with that you get on a piece of equipment you go for 12 minutes as hard as you can you look at distance you look at maximum heart rate you look at your average heart rate if we and then we can do a one minute after that we can look at heart rate recovery now if we take the average heart rate and divide it by the maximum heart rate that's going to give us a percentage and so for fighters that percentage seems to be best somewhere around like 83 to 85 That means you have enough anaerobic to create power, but you have enough aerobic to have power endurance and to maintain that level throughout three to five rounds. If you go really high above that 83% to 85%, then you start losing power because you're getting more and more aerobically dominant. If you go below that, now you're losing endurance. So there's a sweet spot for every sport, and that's what you have to find. Now, I personally would rather my general population clients be on the high end of that percentage because the aerobic pathway is your pathway for life. That's what fucking keeps you alive. It's your anti-aging pathway. The majority of gen pop that come to us, they're worried about anti-aging and longevity and being healthy. So we will keep them on the high side of that. If I have a general pop guy who says, oh, I'm going to do this charity boxing match, cool. Now what I'm going to do is I'm going to get off that stuff and I'm going to drive him down a little bit so that he's back in the percentage he needs. right so everything can be if you can quantify it then you can train for it and you can everything is everything is trainable so i guess it was the balancing the aerobic and the anaerobic work was right that's what you're saying and what happens is when you're too anaerobic your bioenergetics don't work well and you don't oxidize things correctly you get locked into this kind of high i don't want to i don't want to say lactic acid pathway because that's not technically correct but most most people that are hearing this will understand what i mean where you're doing a 12 rep max and your legs are on fire at rep three or four or like you walk up a flight of stairs and your legs are on fire that's common but not normal you should be able to walk up a flight of stairs without feeling any burning unless you're walking upstairs with like 100 kilos strapped on your back absolutely yeah absolutely all right very good okay so rewinding back to um the gut and uh you know what what we can actually do let talk about you mentioned fodmaps and are there some general aside from elimination diet and I guess identifying what foods are problematic are there some sort of sweeping guidelines that we had Dr. Tom O'Brien on this morning talking about the spawn of Satan himself, gluten, and well, wheat and everything that flows on from wheat, and the fact that most, well, everyone should avoid it, like it just has no place in the body. So, like, do you have some foods that generally you like to avoid as a rule of thumb? Not really. I mean, I'm not – I used to hate on gluten too, and I love Tom's work, but I don't think everybody has to avoid gluten, and it's impossible these days to avoid it, right? Yeah. But what I do – I do agree that you should limit it. Like, you shouldn't purposely be just, you know, a joke I have when we go out to eat and when, like, some of my staff members are gluten-free, and they'll say, I'm gluten-free, and I'll ask for their gluten, I want to give me extra gluten, right? Because it makes everything taste delicious. Yes. Gluten load. But, yeah, you should probably avoid it as much as possible, but it's not going to fucking kill you, right? But the majority of the issue, again, rolls down the stress. You have stress. You have poor gut function. Yes, gluten is inflammatory to the intestinal tract, but so are some fatty acids and some other proteins, right? So that's, you know, if your body is in a more anabolic recovery state, then gluten becomes a non-issue unless you have a genetic issue with it, some type of colitis or, you know, Crohn's. Or if you can't, or if you're like just over consuming it, which most people do. They wake up and they have gluten for breakfast, gluten for lunch, gluten for dinner, gluten while they're watching TV. And yeah, those people should probably remove it from their diet for a certain period of time. But, man, if your kid is eating a – if you go with your kid to a fucking birthday party, are you going to be that asshole that goes, oh, is this a gluten-free cake? My kid can't have it. Yeah, fuck off. Just eat the goddamn cake. Well, I mean that's what Dr. O'Brien was referring to is essentially there's a threshold that you pass. And given the weight of environmental toxicity and all the other stress that we carry in our lives, the body's ability to withstand constant exposure to wheat, that's where the issue is. But I guess if we're looking at all these other factors that you're talking about, managing stress, you know, generally eating quite well and living in a relatively low toxic environment, well then, yeah, sure. And would it be something that you would do for that least mode? Would it be, would you say sort of take? I'd do an elimination diet and pull that out a little bit, you know. But you know what people tend to do? Like if I go on a gluten-free diet, I'm at the perimeter and I'm buying meats and veggies and fruits. Yes. I'm not getting like gluten-free fucking brownies. And that's what people do. Yeah, dude, yeah. And there's a lot of stuff in those that is probably potentially worse than the actual gluten, right? So, yeah, like people go, I can't afford to eat gluten-free. Well, stop fucking buying gluten-free treats because you shouldn't be fucking smashing those anyways if you're trying to lose weight. Yeah. Right? Oh, very cool. So we had a bit of an idea of your take on yard health. And you did mention when we were talking earlier that you've actually taken some of the stuff out of the Muscle Nerds curriculum because it is – the more we know about the gut biome, it's sort of like, well, maybe we shouldn't be using that probiotic. Like how do you know you're deficient in that? Yeah. And so like what can we – I mean are there any supplements that you do – I mean you mentioned the digestive enzymes. That's pretty straightforward. but like outside of that um are there any supplements that you do recommend and your take on fiber supplement fiber versus uh whole food fiber like fiber from the foods we eat yeah so we typically we do a lot of stuff with thorn research um and the reason we do it is because the their standard of they manufacture all their own stuff they have scientists their service is unparalleled i've never dealt with a supplement company with a service they do so my recommendation like thorn bioges is what i usually will do like a couple of those with a mill. We'll typically take it after the mill to get the acidity back, the acidity level in the stomach back up after. So we'll use that. And in that you've got hydrochloric acid, you have pepsin, you have pancreatic enzymes, and you have a little bit of ox bile. So if you're vegan, that's out. So you could piece together, there's other products you can take like dipan-9 and HCL with pepsin. And then we've seen a lot of people with ox bile issues right now. So we're using a lot of Tudka and ox bile with people. So Tudka more for the vegans if you can find it in a gelatin capsule or not gelatin, a veggie cap. And then we use ox bile because it's cheap. And that's been a godsend to a lot of people. And we get people that they complain that we give them fish oil and their shit smells fishy. Well, that's telling me that something's going on with the digestion. They're not using bile to emulsify. Maybe there's not enough pancreatic lipase to break it down. so we'll give them a little bit of ox ball or tudka and that takes care of it right and that helps break down fatty acids yeah so bio basically scrubs it's like a dishwashing detergent

So when you have fat, it scrubs it and makes it available for lipase to now break it apart. So if you don't have a gallbladder, you should probably be on some type of bile supplement. Here's the thing, man. If you're stressed out and your liver's working overtime with things like trying to turn on and turn off hormones and detoxify things, and if it's stress because of trying to create glycogen and doing all this other stuff that the liver's going to do, it also makes bile so you can assume if you have mitochondrial issues you're not going to make enough bile and that's what we're finding in people and so in that first few weeks of least mode we might add that in and does it make a difference yes or no if it's making a difference i will keep it in there until we feel like it's not making a difference and you're now you're chugging along on your own with probiotics we're apt to give here biocidicals ultrabotic 500 i like the ultrabotic line that they have and we'll usually do like the the big the big sachets at night before they go to bed, and then we'll move to the 45s. But again, that's short-term, not long-term. So we do it until their poop looks pretty, and then if their poop stops looking pretty, maybe we'll add it in, but it's on a temporary basis. So it won't be long-term probiotics? No, but the thing is probiotics, unless you understand the strains and what they do, like you can take probiotics as an antidepressant. You can take them as anti-anxiety. Some of them raise GABA. Some of them raise serotonin. But the research is so convoluted, You really need to talk to an expert on that stuff. And it's all changing all the time. And, you know, the only real way that we know to alter the gut microbiota is a fecal matter transplant or long-term intake of polyphenols. Like I like ATP science gut, right? We use that for a lot of people. Or just cranking up the fruits and veggies and to be careful of cranking up the fat too much, especially the saturated fat. Because you can eat way too much saturated fat. And I know that's people are high on that. fat doesn't make you fat. It fucking does if you're in a hypercaloric diet and you can't break down long-chain fatty acids. Yeah, absolutely. And you don't recommend any of our listeners trying the fecal implant either. We can try that at lunch if you want. I can make you guys a shit sandwich. No, I mean, that's the thing. And that's because it's not a big thing here yet, but I know there's a place in Sydney that's now doing it. But you know how the government is here. Like, they're so far behind the time with the medical medicine. So, like, it's the government in Australia, I love them, But, man, fuck, their ideas on the medical system is just fucked. But we have Medicare, though, which you don't in the U.S. Yeah, but it's just as bad as the U.S. Like, fuck. Like, every single country I've been to, whether they have universal health care, whether they have insurance, they're all fucked. Like, the insurance companies fuck the doctors in America. Your government fucks the doctors here. So, you know, and the thing is, when the government runs things, like universal health care, they make the rules. He who has the gold makes the rules. And so they really put their thumbs down on the doctors. They can't do a whole lot unless it's a doctor working out of a fucking alley, and you've got to know somebody to know somebody to get in to see them, right? And they have to do shady shit because they want to be progressive. And I think one of the frightening things is when you look at the trajectory of where health is going on a population basis, the system just won't have, if it keeps trending, won't have capacity to manage that. So now is the time to really take your health within your own hands and not have to rely on a government-run system. Well, tell me I do. I order all my pharmaceuticals online and I treat myself. I am Dr. Dubois. You are? Okay. You can get your own bloods here now, imedical.com.au. You can order all your own bloods. What one is it? imedical.com.au. And they've got tons of them and it's cheap. It's cheap as. Imedical, there you go. Beautiful. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, if you want to really, you want preventive health, you've got to take it in your own hands. And, you know, I've got some, I'm not real big on naturopaths here, but there's a few that I really like. Gary Griffith. I like Elisma. Elisma Lambert. I'm trying to remember a couple of it. I mean, really, I only know a couple of good naturopaths. The majority of them, they don't spend enough time learning the actual biochemistry and shit. And they go straight to the goddamn essential oils and the fucking hippie foo-foo Reiki shit. Which I think all that stuff's great. Yeah. But you got to know if you're giving people herbs and things like that, you got to know what the fuck it's doing in the body. and they don't. And Zoe's at naturopath school right now and naturopaths get a lot of flack here and it's not deserved for a handful of them, but it is deserved for a vast majority of them because they get way off the science. They get in the fucking voodoo bullshit. Yeah, definitely. And okay, delving back into the, so that was a good overview there. What about fiber? Let's just tackle that one because we have different types, soluble, insoluble. Now, Hanselman's a mentor of mine. I spend a lot of time listening to this guy. But he of the opinion that on paper it looks the same but supplemental fiber just doesn cut it So he advocates pretty much what you said you know just a lot of whole foods and fruits and gut health tends to ride itself which is actually what Broderick says. When I first started mentoring with him, I sort of got the pen and paper out. It's like, hey, mate, tell me what you do for gut health. And he goes, dude, I just get him to eat clean and the gut fix itself. So, which is pretty much what you've said with a bit of a supplement in that least mode phase. Fibers, what are your thoughts on that? I think, you know what, here's the thing. If they're low-carbing it and they're not, for whatever reason, can't eat a lot of plant matter, maybe. Because a lot of people, you try to put them on a couple of kilos of plant matter a day and they fucking freak out. But they don't have any problem eating a couple of kilos of fucking meat, you know? Yeah. But we try to get as much as we can in whole foods. If they can't, give them beans, man. Beans are awesome. And then people are going to go, oh, the phytates, the phytic acid, the lectins and all that. They'll say, oh, fuck off. People are focusing on the dumbest shit. Like beans are fucking delicious and they jack up your fiber and they give you really pretty poop. Right. So eat your fucking beans. Um, when you look at supplemental fibers, I think there's a place for it, but just like with any supplements that supplementing a healthy lifestyle and diet. So for instance, if I have somebody that I, they're bloating all the time and they have like they burning pain in their stomach. Yeah. I might give them some, something like some aloe vera fiber. I might give them some slippery Elm. If they're having either constipated, I might give them some slippery Elm or something like that to make it, you know, kind of ease that down. If they have a lot of diarrhea or they're peeing out of the butthole, I might give them some psyllium husk to kind of create some bulk and soak up some of that water. But we very rarely prescribe supplemental fiber for people because if they're eating a lot, they're probably going to get plenty of that in. So it comes back to that getting as much as you can from whole foods. Yeah. And in a lot of cases, you start adding a lot of supplemental fiber that's not in a whole food form. It tends to start grabbing vitamins and minerals that you're making in your guts. and you start creating mineral defense or vitamin deficiencies. Interesting. Okay. All right. Anything else re-gut health or anything pointed out there? Look, at the end of the day, keep shit simple until it needs to be complex. And if it has to get too complex for personal trainers, probably out of your fucking pay scale, pay grade. So get people to calm down. Have them mindful. Try not to eat when you're emotional. Right. So one of the things we'll typically have our clients do, because to be able to hire a personal trainer, you you have to be able to have some disposable income, which means you probably work your ass off or you're the partner of somebody who works their ass off. But you probably have a stressful life. Mo money, mo problems. Right. So in that case, what we might have somebody do, let's say an office worker who's in a really toxic office work is the fucking worst. and we might have them do some visualization and some head space for like a five-minute guided head space, do some box breathing, and then eat. Because you're wanting to calm everything down. If you calm down and get into a parasympathetic state, oxidation goes up, which means that you're going to start burning off a lot of things and you're going to make energy appropriately. What you don't want to do is be screaming at your employees or being screamed at and then go fucking pissed off. A couple of mouthfuls in between yelling at people. Yeah, and they're just fucking, you know, basically deep throat your chicken breast because you're not chewing because you're pissed off and, you know, you're not managing your food well. That's the little kind of calories in, calories out stuff that we need to start having discussions on when you realize that it's not just an A minus B equals C type of ordeal. Yeah, so other than that, like the digestive enzymes can work really well. But like everything, if you're taking them and they don't seem to be working, it's probably a waste of money. So you should be significantly better when you're taking things. And you take those at the end of the meal? Yeah, so there's some current research that's come out over the last few years that say it may be, especially for older populations, best if you take it after the meal because what ends up happening is you eat and all of that acid is going into your food, and so the acidity in the stomach goes down. The pH goes up. And so then they're saying that in older populations it might be beneficial to take it after the meal, especially if you're eating multiple times a day. If you have a client eating five, six times a day, it could take an hour and a half to two hours for them to get their acidity back up to normal level. So if you're eating multiple times and all that, and you also have low acidity because you're stressed out and you're training and all this stuff and you're dieting, it might be beneficial to take it at that time. Most of your clients aren't going to be achlerotic. They're not going to have no, you know, that's not really going to happen to most people. mostly it's going to be reinstating it after that first meal. But I don't think it really matters when you take it. I'm just basing it on current research. Sometimes we'll have people take it in the middle of the meal because it causes some issues. You should never take it if you get any kind of reaction. So just keep in mind, if you have an ulcer, if you think you may have an ulcer if you ever had an H pylori infection you might want to get that checked out first before you take it And if that the case you might want to try a weaker acid first like maybe apple cider vinegar with your meals or balsamic vinegar, like have a salad with some vinegar on top after the meal, after you eat. And that tends to help out too, but it's not as acidic as hydrochloric acid. And just in regards to body composition, like poor gut health can certainly, it's pretty much been echoed through everything we've spoken about, but uh that would be your your stance as well like if the gut ain't right then yeah 100 yeah and that you're gonna see that i mean that's okay let's say you have a client that's you know i don't like to use the word bulking i'm people can't hear me doing the quotation marks about bulking yeah um you bulking it's a bulking is inherently insulin resistance producing and inflammatory by nature so if you're bulking and you're especially if you're eating a lot more protein then you probably want to take some extra enzymes on top of that um then if you're dieting you get close to the show you're you're you know you're gonna be having issues with creating these gastric juices and and you know processing things anyway so you might want to put it in closer to your to the show time to give yourself a little bit of extra oomph because like i said earlier your hormones are going to drop going into a show that is completely natural and if unless you're taking exogenous hormones it's you're not going to be able to get around that like your your thyroid is going to tank if you get on stage or do a photo shoot and you get down to really lean levels your testosterone everything's going to tank absolutely totally normal what we want to do is try to make it not tank as much yep okay and then with all those hormones tanking if your thyroid tanks mitochondria function tanks and then ability to make those gastric juices and enzymes and things start to tank as well so it might be a good thing to add that in and that might keep you from getting some food intolerances because that's when you normally see it for competitors like six weeks out from a show they walk in the train with you you look at their stomach they look six months fucking pregnant you're like what'd you do uh i ate 15 minutes ago what the fuck did you eat you eat a fucking basketball no i ate you know chicken chicken and rice and asparagus or something you're like okay fuck now we gotta switch her to turkey and fucking something else yeah so if you were to start maybe like six to eight weeks out from a show start taking those digestive enzymes and making sure you're chewing your food you probably aren't going to have any issues i think that's a really big one i know you've implemented uh chewing food to quite a lot of your guys but And most of my would be PTs that I'm coaching and fucking notorious for, and we're all guilty of it, you know, between sessions. It's like, no, block out half an hour for a meal, sit down. And even the cephalic phase where we, you know, ideally, you know, when you cook a meal, you know, like at least open it up, inhale the fumes from what you're about to eat, let it sit there for a bit and then consume it. Salivate a little. Yeah, exactly. Be mindful. Be mindful, exactly. Trainers have the worst at that. like they're not good at time management for whatever reason so they you know you try to train 15 people a day and you don't you give yourself like oh hey go warm up on a treadmill for five minutes you're trying to fucking shovel in a 500 calorie meal in five minutes it doesn't work that well absolutely or you do what stefan used to do just eat it on the floor while he was uh coaching us stefan you don't have to do that you know that mate yeah mate no worries oh cool there was a study that came out where they looked at like mastication 40 chews versus 15 chews. And what they found was that people who chewed their food 40 times instead of 15 had higher levels of CCK, lower levels of ghrelin, higher levels of leptin, and higher levels of GLP-1. So they ended up eating about 12, I think it was 11.9, 12% less food. So here's the thing. If I can get my client to chew their food, they'll naturally eat less food without me making a deficit, which means that they don't feel deprived. They're just naturally going to eat less, which is a win-win and then with the rise of cholecystokinin going up that's going to tell all the other enzymes and all the other chemicals to be secreted in the right fashion absolutely you know like i think we can all attest whenever we have a like a binge or some sort of cheap meal you eat that you're still hungry you go like it's mind-boggling how much you actually it's like my god did i eat all that food like how how and if you sit down to a like a decent uh you know more whole food meal you just don't get through that much food you know it's amazing bizarre people don't understand they don't understand food calories and what's actually in food right if you actually lay out like 1200 calories it's not a lot of food no and so you know most people are eating you know they think they're eating 1200 eating like fucking 2400 yeah dude yeah exactly not necessarily misreporting but just uh unknowingly they're just they just ignore it they haven't been educated on what like here's here's a hundred grams of chicken breast cooked as 31 grams of protein right and they look at that and they you know what they do is they track on my fitness pal which i fucking i don't know what you use i hate my fitness pal with a fucking passion because you get what ends up happening you get like fucking mommy blogger 1976 she puts an entry in and now your chicken breast has 40 grams of carbs in it or some shit because she's a fucking moron when she adds it in now your clients like they think they're eating you know 1200 calories and they're eating like 2400 because they putting the wrong entries in Absolutely Yeah Yeah That what we use Chronometer Everything university studied Everything in there You can pick something So what the chronometer C So it like MyFitnessPal but if someone adds in a selection, you only see it in your portal. And then it tells you where they got everything, whether it's from University of Michigan or whether this is Australian standard or Irish standard. The database is really good and you can have confidence that the entry is going to be correct. So that's similar to the MyFitnessPal app, so on the phone and stuff? Just like that. So that's what we have. Like I said, we do our training programs in Keystone, and then what we do is we put their macros in there, and then we have them track on Chronometer because I like their database. So we use both of those programs side by side, and it works really well. And it's amazing. When people start actually tracking their food, you get general population people, they call us and they go, fuck, I didn't realize how much I was eating. And then you hear, you look at coaches, and coaches go, fuck, I didn't know how little I was eating. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And doing all the training. Yeah. It's like, I don't know why I'm not growing. Like, I'm eating enough. Yeah. Bizarre. This has been absolutely awesome, man. Just one thing, mate, with the anti-aging that you're spending some time on, have you got any hot tips in that department as we, Rodan and I, often lament our aging ways? What about things like peptides and... Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm liking the peptides. I am. I started the peptides probably five or six weeks ago. Is that right? Yeah. And you know what? No more. What's the BCP 157? Yeah. No more lower back pain anymore. No fucking ankle pain. Like none of my joints hurt anymore. My joints feel like I'm fucking 16 again. I started that. S22 SARMs. I can't remember what the, man, that stuff fucking burns like a motherfucker. Like it's like injecting hot lava. So I don't really, I don't. I thought that was under the tongue. You got the injectable. No, I got the injectable, but I'm going to tell my doctor to give me some fucking either the oral or the transdermal next. Because like Zoe and I were getting on them, and there's no way she'll do the S22. She saw me inject it the first time, and I'm like, fuck. But I've got a system now where I inject it as fast as possible, and then I start like rubbing my belly really, really fast. So it tends to not feel it. And then the CJC with the ipamrelin, and it's been fantastic. I actually texted Zoe today. I was looking in the mirror and I'm like, fucking hell, like all the wrinkles that were on my eyes are all gone. You do look good. I turned 41, fuck, and I'm like, this is fantastic. I'm staying on this shit forever. I don't even do gear anymore. It's a pain in the ass, such a pain in the ass to get here and then pinning yourself and all that stuff. So is that through, if you don't mind, is that through a clinic or a doctor? Yeah, it's an anti-wrinkle clinic or something. It's in Right By Us in Balloomba. Cool. yeah so i have to remember that's fine it's called anti-wrinkle or something it's good like i walked in i said hey i'm interested in anti-aging okay what do you do we do the peptides okay let's talk and he said okay i think you should do this it's been fantastic yeah i know i've got an athlete that um that i'm working with that does uh yeah it's like through a clinic and they yeah it's an excellent and i think you got to get a difference you got to get it compounded because i think that a lot of the people that say that the peptides don't work is because they're buying it from research companies they're probably shit they're probably not even what you're buying is probably it's denatured or it's not even the right thing and that's why people are saying that and i was skeptical and i said all right you know what it's not cheap but i'll try it i don't because i don't want to i don't want to be on the i don't want to be on the steroid wagon anymore like the hrt stuff is i i'm the i'm the worst with trt is which is i'll i'll i'll be really good for two weeks and i'll forget to take an injection for like four and then you know traveling in other countries with gear is really difficult, but the peptides are super easy. They don't really know what they are, so you open it up, you put on the conveyor belt, and they see the prescription, and they don't even fucking ask because it doesn't look like steroids. It's not, but I think it's interesting. I like it. Tommy's played around with, had an injury and delved into the TB. TB 500. And the BPC was just TB? No, just the TB 500. It was like magic. Like I couldn't bowl last year, I did a specific protocol it's like broad sort of helped me out a little bit with it where I actually had to inflame my shoulder as much as possible and then load up the compound and it's literally I can do something that last year I could not do that's amazing yeah it's amazing but he actually got to the first time he was with Dr. Vinesh and a bit creaked out he helped me do the injection then he was like that's actually quite enjoyable ripped open the swab and that alcohol smell we all know that smell. Cam wouldn't, but yeah, it's a process, I guess. And look, at the end of the day, I think, you know, for someone that is still in the game and has to look a certain way and train and do everything else and for yourself as well, like, it is like, you know, it's good for business. You know, if you look a certain way and you can keep training,

I think it'd be foolish if they're, I mean, they're legal through clinics, like it'd be foolish not to explore. Certainly the, you know, there's no real known problems with the peptides and whatnot, albeit a newer science. I like it because of the SARMs, you know, it's selectively hitting certain receptors and not everything else. So if you're taking something like S22 and it's hitting bone and muscle receptors without actually hitting organs and everything else, that's a great thing. and look, truth be told you're looking pretty jacked at the moment I'm just not fat small enough it's been great did you notice anything with your gut? did your gut get better? no, I mean I think the BPC 157 apparently is very good with that, I think they actually make it from gut lining but what I did notice was an enhanced sense of general well-being I was feeling quite good really roostering about the place big man on campus just relaxed and happy for no particular reason that's what using performance enhancing supplements does to you Tom I've been telling you for years and look there's probably some placebo element that comes along with it you get something you open it up you put an injection in it was all quite exciting for me but yeah I had a wonderful experience with it I'm liking it I've noticed with the 157 that my gut's gotten so much better I have heard that it's not as inflamed anymore I can eat foods that normally would have had reaction like dairy and shit like that yeah fascinating awesome mate you better give us the rundown of how people get in contact with you the services that you offer Chris you mentioned the program design as well I know that's a big a new one for you yeah give us a bit of a rundown of what's happening because you're in Sydney soon I think we are yeah so our flag kind of our flagship thing is the foundation score so we go through we go through digestion assimilation we go through nutritional biochemistry we go through uh we go through stress stress management metabolic syndrome and it's like the least mode programming with and then there's online content so there's dozens of hours online content with that um we recommend people go try to go through like two or three times so they really can understand what it is so we've got that and then we have the program design which is a online content it's it started out as eight weeks it's now 10 weeks um we get you get a phone call every week so we do a group call where we talk online and that type of thing there's a forum for all their groups and then with the program design you go through the first time and there's a three-day workshop you go through the second time and you can come to the three-day workshop but then there's an additional two days and then so typically you go through twice and you're you're pretty sweet but that's all included in the price so that and then we have the and you have you got to test out of that one so then we have when it not about the food which are kind of our self Why are your clients self So when it not the food not the training what could it possibly be And it dives into trauma how to recognize that your client has trauma whether that's adolescent or childhood or adulthood trauma. How does that affect that stress physiology? What you can and can't do as a personal trainer and understanding it's not really their fault. you really need to get them to refer it out to a proper type of counselor, some type of trauma counselor. We use the EMDR, which is like a rapid eye movement type of therapy that we don't do, but here's how to find a network and create integrative personal training where you have a group of people working together to get clients better and then how to get them over those traumas so that they can move forward and they stop self-sabotaging and binging and that type of thing. And this obviously is all listed on the Muscle Nerd website? Our website. our website's fucking terrible so we're working on that but yeah it's on there all right so instagram facebook as well instagram yeah muscle nerds underscore health and then that's instagram we're at muscle nerds on facebook uh luke lehman on facebook and on instagram so um the majority of the stuff that i post on my own personal stuff is like fucking penis jokes and shit jokes and stuff like that so comes with the territory yeah like i fucking trusted a fart the other day i I shouldn't have trusted and I posted about it. And I was amazed. I had like a dozen people go, man, I shit myself last week too. How about that? I'm like, wow, not just me. All right. And then we do online training. So we mainly train other trainers, but we do do some online stuff with general population. We've got some like large group training stuff and that type of thing. And sorry, I know you want to say. No, no, no, you go. And we just got our office in Belumba. So hopefully within the next month and a half, we'll be there and I'll be doing fascial stretch therapy. I'll be doing dolphin neurostim therapy. We're doing some gua sha. We're doing nutritional consultations, programming consultations, stuff like that. And so what's coming up for muscle nerds in the next sort of 12 months or so, the next year? You know what? Hopefully, if we get the office going really well and the treatments are going really well, I'm hoping to bring in a couple of guys for treatment to do that so I don't have to do it. They're quite a bit better than me. And I consider myself fairly good at the treatment stuff, but it's not something I want to be tied down doing all the time. So we've got another trainer we're going to try to bring up to Brisbane to start. We want to start doing, like, hiring space and doing one-on-ones and then hopefully in the next five years build a facility. Brisbane is really hard to find really good facilities, so we want to make, like, the fucking facility. Actually, I want to make the facility of Australia where people are like, I want to fucking go there. Yeah. I just want to go there for a weekend and train, right, that type of thing. Yeah and then I got a lot of travel this year I doing a cadaver course I going to peel dead bodies and see what inside of them uh fst2 i might do posturology i got fucking so much shit and what uh tell me i sure tommy would be curious how it listens what what really excites you at the moment aside from peptides we gathered you're pretty bloody excited about the peppies but uh we call them peppy lapues yeah um what uh what excites you at the moment uh education wise you know what i got into a lull the last couple of years where i was building out our seminars and teaching so much I kind of fell off the education like myself. And then I think it's just been in the last few weeks. I'm like getting jacked up to start doing. So I'm starting to do like those next couple of levels of biochemistry and mitochondria. And I'm looking into more blood sugar stuff. And that's kind of, I mean, the nutrition and the biochemistry is kind of my, that's my favorite thing. So I'm fucking balls deep into that stuff right now. And the lactate stuff sounds like it was pretty cool. It is. And that stuff all kind of blends into that, like why – like your body is making this for a reason, and it's usually to protect you from dumb shit you're doing to yourself. So why is it doing this, and how do we fix the issue that's causing this, the higher order issue, so then everything flows better and they get better results faster and safer and more sustainable? So when we talk about transformations and doing shows and things like that and setting goals, and you guys have heard of SMART goals, right? So we do smarts goals, and the last S is sustainable, right? So the goal has to be something that's sustainable over time, which means we've got to play the long game and be methodical about how we plan people's stuff. Very cool, man. Building out our own stuff, man, that's the thing, just building out new shit and creating new shit no one's ever seen before, which is what we've done with Elise Mode and Prepping to Prep and integrated personal training and things like that. It's like you've got to stay a step ahead of everybody else and start predicting what the next big thing is. alright mate this has been awesome you got a lot of energy Luke well done I took 24mg of ephedrine and some coffee before I got here of course you did I knew there was something I knew there was something this guy's productivity man he's going to make us look bad I mean I sort of tagged along for the ride I wasn't sure if it was modafinil or what it was but I knew there was something I'm glad you said I've got to order some modafinil yeah and we'll just chuck that blood pressure cusp around the arm now we'll see what's going on oh 190 on 90 hmm a little higher there let's do ours Mine's probably out there as well, actually. Tom's would be all right. Yeah, very good. All right, mate. Thank you for coming in and speaking. Thanks for having me. Excellent. Okay. Very good. Luke Lehman. A real pleasure to have him a part of the Under the Bar podcast. Finally, the muscle nerd. And certainly there so many things we could talk about with him It might be worth getting him back on again in the future I think so interesting at the end there he uh he into the peppy lapews peppy lapews everyone loves it peppy lapew yeah that exciting some uh having some decent uh a decent response to it as well so absolutely as as you had as a lot of others had so yeah it's a food for thought definitely absolutely okay rawdom well that's another episode of uh under the bar podcast any closing thoughts or comments i just think that uh maybe that what we said at the start you know with referencing Mr. Hudson at IFB Pro from South Africa. You know, just his point that we are all in the same, we are all people and we're... Look, Cam, come over here. Let's just hold my hand. You hold that hand there. Tom, hold my hand. Let's get a circle. Okay, we're actually going to do this? Yes, and just remember we're all one in the industry. We are all one, Tom. Okay, we're all one. You know, that's very true. It's very true. You know, we're all fighting the same cause. Yep. You know? Okay, we're done holding hands. We're done holding hands. I was a little surprised how quick Cam came over to hold hands. Yeah. That's good. I'm always down for this kind of positive flow of energy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. I think we can stop now. All right. Great. And three, two, one. Who's going to let go first? Okay. Go, go, go. But all jokes aside, I think we are all in the same industry. And as much as there's lots of divide and we're all with us or against us, a little more of we're all in the same team, heading in the same direction, improving people's lives and getting people healthy and helping everyone, I think that would be a decent sort of remark and thought to finish with today, Tommy. Mate, well said. And the hand-holding wasn't too much? It was a little strange, but... I think that's the first time ever in the last five years and however many billions of downloads, Tommy, that we've held hands in the studio. I think we should do more of it. It's probably the first time in my life I've ever held hands in a circle of men. Yeah. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all. It was just a little strange at first. Nothing wrong with it. No, nothing wrong with it. All right. So if people want to hold hands with you, perhaps, while they're doing a consult about whatever you want to educate them on. Just after they've launched the Spider-Man, how would they contact you? Well, to find the Spider-Man, I guess you'd go to Lobstertube and type in Spider-Man. But to get in contact with me, you'd probably go to tomyu.com.au. And that's for mentoring, PT, all that type of stuff? All that sort of stuff, yeah. All the jazz? All the fun stuff. And for me, it is probably Insta, the Dubois Method, or Facebook, or Warden Dubois on Facebook, or the Dubois Method at gmail.com if they're really keen. Yeah, nice. They can look for the website. It's elusive. They won't find that. No. It's time to go, Warden. Get the angry pirates in the back, Tommy. We're out of here. Let's go. One, two, three, four. you