Creatine, Calories, and Law of Diminishing Returns

i had a thought when we broke to use the bathroom yeah it's a weird thing because we know everything has an upper and lower limit so like creatine once creatine is loaded is taking more creatine going to be helpful right i've and i've actually used this analogy too yeah Like, let's say, let's say just to be clear, you don't need a loading protocol. Is it helpful? Yeah, because it gets you results faster. But then once you're loaded, like more than five, seven and a half grams of creatine maintenance, continuing to take 30 every day, you're just wasting money. You look at calories. If you want to grow, you need it. You need a sufficient amount of energy. Taking more than that is going to make you grow faster, but it's not going to make your muscles grow faster. You're just going to get fat and then you just have to shred that off. So everything has an upper lane You drink too much water too quickly you die of hyponatremia So but for some reason a lot of people think that drugs don play by these same rules So they like, just take more drugs. You're not making gains, take more drugs. And anytime I've put someone, and I never promote this to clients, they know I'm okay with it, but it's always their choice. It's always their responsibility to say, hey, I'd like to look at TRT as an option or even performance enhancing drugs. I'm like, okay, well, if we're going to do this, I'm going to, it's my job to educate you. I'm not going to get it for you. If you can get it for yourself, I'm going to make sure you do it safely. We'll come up with a strategy for it. Like we do with training, nutrition, everything. And everyone I've put on, I put on 160 milligrams of test, boom, they put four, four, five, six pounds on like, wow, this is great. And then titrated up. Like you said, you and your coach, that's, that's the logical way of doing it. Instead of getting really excited and just like premature ejaculation is shooting your load all at once and then once you've taken a few grams of shit where do you go from there yeah because nothing's ever going to feel like that yeah so people can get even though we think steroids aren't physiologically addictive they can be psychologically addictive because of the way you feel and the aggression and the confidence that you get but then a lot of people ignore the side effects and go okay i don't like these other aspects of how it's changed my mood, my identity and the way I feel, I'm willing to deal with that because I love the feeling that I get when I'm on gear. But if there's, there would have been an upper threshold where you still had that same feeling without needing to take excessive amounts of shit. Right. You know, um, in terms of growth, I've had, uh, I've had two people on my podcast say this exact statement, but both of them have experienced at a certain level that when they titrated the doses upwards enough, they also just started not seeing any improvement in progress. I mean, of course, the side effects may increase, but in terms of just rate of progress of muscle growth, they just stopped seeing progress. And both of them, it was Justin Harris, coach Justin Harris, and then the other one was um, Ziegler monster, uh, they both stopped seeing progress at somewhere roughly around a total of two grams. Um, and obviously this is different on a person to person basis, but I mean, I feel like that says enough is like, if they're stopped, if they're not seeing any more progress after that, but then if you titrate the dose even more, it affects your blood work even more and and uh a healthy body is a responding body that's right so at a certain point if you start becoming unhealthy because of your blood work you're going to respond even less i just feel like it just like why you know what's the point right and justin harris is a massive dude yeah and he's probably one of the smartest guys i've ever met in the industry that dude is wicked smart i remember being at a seminar in columbus ohio an elite fts seminar and i watched he and croc had a bench press competition and so they put on like a loose a loose powerlifting shirt and they were going at it i think they were fucking repping out like 640 and then they had a dip contest how many dips i could do in a row and it was just it was hysterical to watch guys that big like doing dips and like doing 50 60 dips after the bench contest yeah fuck yeah but But it's like, he's right. I mean, there's a law diminishing returns. And if we look at even something else that even if you don't do gear, and if you're a bodybuilding coach, if you're in the industry, and especially if you read literature and look at the evidence-based side of OIDU, at least I don't like the word evidence-based. because when people talk about evidence-based, they're basically saying paper-based, like 30-person subject pool or meta-analysis of what we think, how we respond to things, what's the most volume, least volume, and all that stuff. And this stuff's always changing.